Separate Hull down command

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by Andrew Hedges:

...Although I wouldn't object if the LOS tool allowed you to be HD to terrain

Sounds like a good improvement to me.

[Lorak]

I really don't see what the problem is.

But I can understand why people would like an easy way to achieve hull down (because it is so usefull in an AFV battle).

Easiest way to achieve hull down status, and once you take this step it is natural from then on.

Go into the editor and set up a map with hills and several AFV's. (I chose ones that really had a hard time taking each other out).

Use the "hunt" command to achive hull down status in a lot of places on diffrent size slopes.

Then look at where it is. Remember it.

I can move about any AFV into Hull down status to an area without using the hunt command. Just a matter of seeing it a couple of times. Better yet is to just wait right below Hull down until enemy AFV's come into view and then hunt forward the last 5 meters or so to pop them.

Yes it is a little work setting up the scenario at first. But with one practice battle your have a much better grasp of where you need to be.

**make sure you use realistic scale oing this**

Lorak

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"Do not wait to strike till the iron is hot; but make it hot by striking."--William Butler Yeats

Cesspool

Combatmissionclub

and for Kitty's sake

=^..^=

[Skorpion]

Originally posted by Lorak:

**make sure you use realistic scaling for this**

Lorak

AAAAAAARRRRRRRRGHHHH!!!!

So that's why my tanks never achieve proper hull down positions.

DOH!

Skorp

[:USERNAME:]

Originally posted by Lorak:

I really don't see what the problem is.

But I can understand why people would like an easy way to achieve hull down (because it is so usefull in an AFV battle).

Lorak

And you dont understand the issues either. If you bothered to read other threads, then you would know that I NEVER said there should be an easy or guarenteed way to get HD to terrain or vehicles. It should not depend on the players micromanaging the vehicles. It should not be a sure thing but a reflection on the crews training and status. Just because you order it doesnt make it happen. You are missing the point. Certain functions like firing weapons, choosing targets and things like getting HD should depend on the crew. Not the player.

Thanks for setting the thread back 8 months or so. I dont believe you for a second that you know when you are HD to a piece of terrain. Its only known when a vehicle target drives onto that terrain.

Lewis

[Dirtweasle]

Is'nt "hull down" appreciated as just when only the turret/gun is poking up above the terrain? If you're looking out the battle sight and going slowly up to a crest shouldn't (isn't) it be fairly easy for the crew to accomplish this? Following this thread it would appear that some folks seem to think that determining when your able to view over a small bump/crest is some sort of magical feat IRL. Isn't hull down to a particular given point achieved fairly easily? Can't say I've ever driven any sort of AFV but do have a Jeep, and drive in rural hilly terrain. Try driving slowly up a little hill/bump/crest and look for a tree/shrub/rock to come into view. At some point my roll cage and the top of my head will be above the terrain, but the body of the jeep will be masked by the terrain. If I stopped at this point wouldn't my vehicle be "hull down" to the terrain reference point? Some may say that the commander / driver / gunner have to interact and their is a delay. Fine, take two friends out in a car and find a little hill and try it. Have one sit on top of the car, and only talk to the guy in the back seat, who talks to the driver or some such thing. It can't be too much different for demonstration purposes.

The whole thing seems to go back to the issue of micro-management and kludgy work arounds. I contend that having either the command or easier user feedback to determine the situational awareness needed is desirable. If this were a tank driving/fighting simulator, then I'd be able to understand why you'd want the user to immerse themselves in the details of driving the thing, and get highly proficient positioning the vehicle. But the CM game is not a tank driving simulator, it I thought is a WWII squad level combat simulation game. If the user understands the benefits and liabilities of being stationary and hull down to only 1 given spot, than from a simulation of this level don't they deserve some sort of aid achieving the desired result? So I have to think that given the inability to look out the vision slit / battle sight, it would be highly desirable to have some either some easily appreciated feedback that a vehicle is hull down to a given point, or in fact the ability to simply order the unit to achieve that position.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Dirtweasle:

If this were a tank driving/fighting simulator, then I'd be able to understand why you'd want the user to immerse themselves in the details of driving the thing, and get highly proficient positioning the vehicle.

An excellent point (and overall a good post). If you were playing a tank simulator, you would be responsible for finding your own HD position. But you would also be given the tools for achieving that position - the exactly visual perspective of the tank and fine control over its movement.

In CM, you also have personal responsibility for finding the HD position, but you aren't given the proper tools.

[PantherGunner]

Originally posted by Dirtweasle:

Is'nt "hull down" appreciated as just when only the turret/gun is poking up above the terrain? If you're looking out the battle sight and going slowly up to a crest shouldn't (isn't) it be fairly easy for the crew to accomplish this?....

Actually it is fairly easy for a tank crew to get into a hull down position in respect TO A CERTAIN POINT, depending upon the terrain of course. The reason is that the optics (the auxiliary sight in MBTs) are in line with the main gun. The tank commander gets the tank to the relative position and then has the driver slowly creep forward. The gunner then takes over and tells the driver when to stop when the he sees the target. This ensures the gun tube has cleared any intervening terrain. As was pointed earlier, the best way to engage other AFVs is to be in a turret down (hide) position so only the tank commander can see the area and once a target comes into view, the tank moves forward into a hull down position. This is how we did it when i commanded Sheridans and M1s. Of course, we had engineers construct the positions with dozers so it was easy to get into a hull down position relative to a point. I think the best way to obtain a HD position in CM is making a test scenario and practice, practice, practice.