Homba Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Situation: My veteran US army 1917 HMG team waits in a heavy builing on a clear day. The building is located at the bottom of nice little dell, sheltered from enemy heavy weapons. The slopes of the dell rise up in front and to the left. To the right, I can cover a field in front of the entire right flank of my defensive line. This position is to anchor the left side of my right flank. If Enemy infantry approach from the front or left, they will have to come over the lip of the dell and there is no cover for 80m to my house-- where I plan to shred them WWI-style, as they will be unsupported in the open. AAR: One Volks SMG SQUAD (8 men) charged my house at the beginning of a turn. I don't believe these attackers were even 'in command.' As far as the tracer-graphics show, I got off one burst at them at them as they crested the lip of the dell to my front. I proceeded to get 4 bursts in, the last coming when they were about 10m from my house. Bursts were at 90, 65, 35 and 10m- the entire time my veteran HMG team was not pinned, cautious, etc. They were OK or Alerted. Managed to pick off one enemy in the first or second salvo. Got 2 more at the 10m point. The enemy never went to ground or ceased sprinting toward my house (firing an ineffective burst or two from their SMGs) and entered the building with about 15 seconds left in the turn, where each side has lost 1 man in close combat. I am incredulous (to put it mildly) that these 8 attackers were able to quickly, easily, unsuppressed, and at little cost, cross 90m of open ground, while under the concentrated fire of a veteran, unsuppressed HMG team firing from a heavy building-- and I believe MGs should be tweaked up until it would probably require a PLATOON of men (rather than a squad) to frontally assault and take out my position, and not without considerable loss, or possibility of being turned back. The explanation that "open ground doesn't necessarily represent ground devoid of cover," is wholly unsatisfactory. This might explain why a squad PINNED in open ground would not be instantly liquidated by an MG. However, the attackers ran the 90m to my position without pause. They weren't seriously seeking cover. Further, we have Broken, Lt. Woods, Wheat, etc. terrain tiles to represent land "with some cover." Only the rocky Broken terrain is an impediment to vehicles. Vehicles can go full speed over "open groun"- it might as well be a parking lot. Any "hard cover" that might be useful to a squad advancing against an MG position MUST be few and far between judging by the easy at which a vehicle crosses open terrain. For those reasons, I find the argument/explanation of "limited cover" in "open terrain" to be wholly insufficient to explain the ease of the assault on my HMG position. Maybe some members of a resourceful (and probably elite) squad of men could enter my position if they spaced out to a frontage of about 200m+, nearly a full half-arc around my position, and all rushed in at once. I could understand how one MG would have trouble stopping that kind of attack. However, I don't believe this is what is being modeled in CM when a squad rushes a building. Granted there is some spacing, but it is safe to assume the squad (to maintain cohesion) has a frontage of no more than 30m or so? I would posit that 30m is not significant, other than to reduce casualties caused by 1 burst. The 200m front I mentioned above could only be acheived by a 3-squad platoon, and here I would feel real danger to my MG house. I have experienced these incredibly dumbed-down MGs over and over, whether they be in groups or standing alone. I have run tests with ridiculous results. I have read the complaints of countless people here on the forum. I have read about the vicious and unprecedented effect of MGs on the WWI battlefield against "human wave" attacks. I have never heard any good justification on this bb for the current state of MG effectiveness. Until we have a fix, we are going to continue to see the human wave attack used with outrageously unrealistic success. Any squad of men running at an unsuppressed MG from 100-20m range who is firing repeatedly at them have two choices: seek cover or die. Why isn't this modeled correctly in CM? I suggest that crewed MG firepower be increased by 75-100%. Is this outrageous? If doubled, would only 2 (instead of 5) men reached my HMG house? Would the increased firepower forced the attackers to go to ground? I hope so. The attack of this SMG squad should have been suicidal- but instead was an easy success. Are the Russians are going to be hell on wheels OR WHAT in CM2!? Homba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jshandorf Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 What was the experience level of the Germans? I have rarely seen what you describe with Regular or less quality troops on the attack. If they were Veteran it could happen, but if they were Crack or Elite I am not surprised. Jeff ------------------ Good health is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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