Presetting MG Pillboxes/Bunkers Ambush Targets

[Faust]

One annoying facet of CM is not being able set individual ambush targets for MG pillboxes or Bunkers. They will shoot at anything within acceptable range, (even 2000+ yrds.) with minmal effect and blowing all elements of any surprise coordinating with other unit's related ambush targets. These MG units alos attract immediate attention and are usually destroyed within three turns.

It's the one aspect of CM control which hopefully will be incorporated in CM2?

[Subvet]

I agree with you, but even if you could use "ambush" with them they would still get spotted and eliminated very early. If an enemy unit has LOS to a pillbox/bunker, even at long range, it will be spotted. There was a recent thread about these problems. Read it here: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/015634.html

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Craig

"Only a madman would consider the possibility of war between the two states (France and Germany), for which, from our point of view, there is no rational or moral ground." - Chancellor Adolf Hitler, Oct. 14, 1933

[JediJobu]

What annoys me more is that MG Pillboxes only have 1 MG - might be more poweful, but still can only engage 1 target at a time. I would think that a pillbox can have 2-3 MG's in it capable of targeting that many targets in a "rush".

Now I see that a wooden bunker might only have one.

[Schugger]

Faust, you can order your Pillboxes and Wood bunkers to target an ambush marker which has been setup by another unit. You can also issue an Hide order to them but - as Subvet has already pointed out - these units are very easily spotted even if they are deployed in woods or similar terrain.

[jgdpzr]

JJ, I thought the concrete bunkers have three MGs. Not sure if they can target three separate targets, however.

[Schugger]

Originally posted by jgdpzr:

JJ, I thought the concrete bunkers have three MGs. Not sure if they can target three separate targets, however.

No, they couldn't ( from my experiance ).

But that is not much of a problem sa they have a very high ROF and chew up soft targets very fast.

[Moriarty]

Concrete pillboxes do have 3 MGs and they really do chew up soft targets very fast ... 'tis better to give than receive in this instance.

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"Moriarty, you suck." -- Dunno, but somebody must've said it somewhere along the line

[Faust]

I agree with you, but even if you could use "ambush" with them they would still get spotted

and eliminated very early. If an enemy unit has LOS to a pillbox/bunker, even at long range,

it will be spotted. There was a recent thread about these problems. Read it here:

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/015634.html

SUBVET,

Thanks for your link on the subject.

BUT.....

1.) If a MG pillbox is quickly LOS detected, because of it's size, and thus becomes a prime target, then they are an expensive habit. The obvious question is why incorporate/buy them at all? As discussed numerous times in the thread.

Also, I would have thought a MG bunker, with lower profile and camoflauge, would be a more difficult target to LOS. Does CM AI adjust for same?

2.) If a pillbox is, as you rightly say, easily detected, then AT pillboxes should also initially be easy targets. But if I use an ambush mode with AT's, there is usually a delay in discovery which allows some ambush advantage.

I still think MG pillbox/bunkers should have independant ambush targets. It would offset their lack of usefullness as discussed numerous times in the thread.

MORIARTY

Excuse my ignorance; how do you determine three MG in pillbox?

"YOU NEVER HEAR THE BULLET THAT KILLS YOU": British Commando training officer, to my father, April 1940.

[Moriarty]

When you are selecting units from the fortifications menu, as your cursor hits the various pillbox/bunker choices the information will show up at the bottom of the screen. One of the choices has a single MG, another (a bit more expensive) has 3 MGs. There is an 88mm bunker and a believe a smaller ATG bunker, maybe 75 mm, if I recall correctly.

Hope that helps

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"Moriarty, you suck." -- Dunno, but somebody must've said it somewhere along the line

[This message has been edited by Moriarty (edited 02-01-2001).]

[Moriarty]

Originally posted by Faust:

1.) If a MG pillbox is quickly LOS detected, because of it's size, and thus becomes a prime target, then they are an expensive habit. The obvious question is why incorporate/buy them at all? As discussed numerous times in the thread.

They're less expensive now than they were and, if I recall correctly, BTS has made it harder for tanks to hit the gun slits. They'll still be taken out but it's not as certain as it was in earlier versions. (Besides, if you plant an AT team nearby the bunker but under cover, your opponent may get cocky and bring his armor in close as it's only an MG bunker)

I still think MG pillbox/bunkers should have independant ambush targets. It would offset their lack of usefullness as discussed numerous times in the thread.

I'd agree with you here. The pillbox/bunker is a fixed defensive asset and, therefore, should have the ability to pre-range sites in LOS.

Excuse my ignorance; how do you determine three MG in pillbox?

Definitely not ignorance ... how you gonna know if you don't ask.

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"Moriarty, you suck." -- Dunno, but somebody must've said it somewhere along the line