lcm1947 Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 I guess the other post about rifles kind of started me wondering what the different country's armies used today as their main shoulder weapon. What I would be interested in is not only the rifles name like M16 but what caliber bullet and grain if you know. I assume all would be able to select from auto to semi-auto but I would be interested in that also. It seems that now that I've found this game I'm really really getting interested in all this kind of stuff. Oh yeah and I'm not just trying to see if our British friends ever came up with a decent rifle. Just kidding but just had to say it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gpig Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Hey Canadian forces now use the C7. It's basically the American M-16 but this version is apparently built and liscenced in Canuck-ville. It's still 5.56mm and is capable of semi-auto and three round bursts. (I'm not sure, but I don't think you can go full-auto with 'em.) They also fiddled with the actual round it fires. Can't remember for sure, but it's supposed to have better accuracy and penetration at long range. It's a step down in punch, from the 7.62mm FN-FAL that was the mainstay for many a year. But the advantages to the C7 were explained to me by my C7 Introduction course teacher like so . . . "If you blow your enemy apart with the 7.62mm, his buddies just move on. Maybe with revenge in their hearts. But if you put a nice neat hole through him that doesn't kill him . . . he starts screaming bloody murder. His buddies want to help him. His buddies crawl over to him to help him out. Then the enemy-side needs a medic. Then they need two guys to carry this poor sap out of danger. Then they need an ambulance with another couple of guys. Maybe a helicopter. Then they need doctors and nurses. etc. etc.. Blah blah blah. Then OUR side wins the war." Ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasd Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 The Australian Army uses the F88, F88 SA1, F88C and the F88T Steyr 5.56mm. My brother is in 4th Battalion, Royal Australian Regiment (commando) and he actually took an M4 over to Timor instead of a Steyr. You can find out more about the Australian Army Land 125 Soldier Combat System here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike8g Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 Germany: Heckler&Koch Gewehr G3 (7,62mm) now changing to Heckler&Koch Gewehr G36 (5,56mm) both single shot and full-auto mode. mike8g Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juha Keratar Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 As I just finished my one-year affair with Finnish army, I'd better answer. The modern day Überfinns use RK-62, a AK-47 variant manufactured here in Finland. My understanding is that it's more reliable than AK-47, mostly due the high quality of parts. The differences are otherwise quite small: the gun fires 7.62 ammo, single shot or burst. There's also a newer version of the weapon, RK-95. Basically it's the same thing: only the muzzle break (hopefully it's that in English) is modified to allow use of rifle grenades, few minor improvements are made, resulting ie. in steadier burst fire, and the stock folds. Finland has also bought about 400k chinese built AK-47, don't know the actual model though. They're to be used in a conflict situation to arm those that don't get RK-62/95. I really like the RK-62. Well, I spent the year running in the woods with my 3-5kg darling, so it figures. -Lunael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanns Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 The logic behind the 5.56mm round winning wars due to not killing the enemy soldier and thus tying up more resources sounds good to a Pentagon paper-pusher but is demonstrated to get grunts on the ground killed. I had some buddies who were in Somalia in 1993 when the "Blackhawk Down" fiasco happened. Matter of fact my unit (3rd BDE, 24th ID) had just been ordered to stand down as we had orders to go and some pencil neck in Washington decided there was no need for heavy armored troops in Somalia as it was a "humanitarian peace keeping" mission. Guys were putting 10, 20 even 30 rounds of 5.56mm SS109 steel penetrator ammo into hostiles and not having them die. One guy said it was like a bad movie, a hostile would get shot, and either ignore the wound or get back up seeming unharmed! A nice .22 calible hole punched through someone will rarely cause immediate death unless it hits the spine, heart or brain. All this and they could still fire back with the much more lethal 7.62mm Soviet round from their AKs. While I was in the US Army I always hated the M-16. Cheapest product the Pentagon could buy. Piece of junk if you ask me. First off, I've never seen a M-16 that can go over 200 rounds without starting to jam. They have to be kept meticulously clean or they will malfunction. Compare this to a Ak-47 or my favorite the G3. Also the old non steel penetrator 5.56mm round is only effective at ranges under 100 meters. Past that range the bullet lacks the velocity to fragment causing the vaunted and highly misunderstood "tumbling" effect. In most US states it's illegal to hunt deer with a 5.56mm weapon because they can't reliably cause a clean kill. IIRC the German Bundewehr has a 7.62 NATO round that has a steel jacketed lead core bullet that fragments similiar to the 5.56mm but has a much longer range, better penetrating power and if it fails to fragment still produces a larger wound channel. If anyone is interested I highly suggest the work of Martin Fackler. He was a combat surgeon in Vietnam and had extensive first hand knowledge of what different types of bullets do to the human body. His work on ballistics is much more believable than the "magic bullet" 99% one shot stop theories of Marshall and Sanow. On an interesting side note has anyone seen the new OICWS that is supposed to eventually replace the M-16. It's a polymer framed rifle (HK G36k) that fires 5.56mm rounds and overslung is a 20mm semi-auto grenade launcher with a passive night vision/IR laser range finder topping it all off. Looks like something from Star Wars and the current models are damn heavy due to all the electronics but it may be workable in a few years. The base rifle has already proved to be extremely light, tough, reliable and most of all cheap. There was a G36 that was tested in Yuma, AZ that went over 24,000 rounds without cleaning, without a failure to feed, fire or extract! Can anyone make claims like that about a M-16? Didn't think so Just don't get me started on how much a piece of junk the M249 SAWs were........... Hanns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted August 22, 2001 Share Posted August 22, 2001 This message is in the wrong forum. Now moving to General Topics area. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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