Viceroy Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I'm looking at this picture of a tank from the British 7th armoured division and there's this symbol on a tank that has me puzzled. It's a red stag/deer on a white background. Anyone know what it meant? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 I am not sure but it could be a Cromwell from the 22nd Amd Brigade. This brigade had such a symbol, but just a head. It is the head of an elk/deer/stag, drawn in red, on a white background. You see the head from the side, sort of, only one eye visible. Both horns visible and the neck ends in a jagged line. This it? Anyway, Cromwells only served in this brigade, plus the Amd Recce Rgt of 7, 11, Gds and Polish Amd Divisions. Is the tank a Cromwell? Dandelion [ March 03, 2003, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Dandelion ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 3, 2003 Share Posted March 3, 2003 Hey I found a homepage with the symbol, here http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.a.paterson/orgarmour.htm#RR44. The symbol is at the very bottom of this huge site, just scroll to the end of it. Looks a little strange, there must have been a modernised simplified version later on. The same? Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viceroy Posted March 4, 2003 Author Share Posted March 4, 2003 Dandelion, thanks for your help Yes, it was a Cromwell of the 22nd Armoured Brigade, 5th Royal Tank Regiment. Interestingly, there is a picture of a 'Dingo' from the Divisional Reconnaissance Regiment, the 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars, with the same red,stag head symbol. Were they considered part of the 22nd Brigade rather than the division? BTW, that's a great website, with lots of detailed info. All this makes me nostalgic for CMBO. Might have to reinstall it! Thanks again for the info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Originally posted by Dandelion: I am not sure but it could be a Cromwell from the 22nd Amd Brigade. This brigade had such a symbol, but just a head. It is the head of an elk/deer/stag, drawn in red, on a white background. You see the head from the side, sort of, only one eye visible. Both horns visible and the neck ends in a jagged line. This it? Anyway, Cromwells only served in this brigade, plus the Amd Recce Rgt of 7, 11, Gds and Polish Amd Divisions. Is the tank a Cromwell?Dandelion, Is there some link you could give me that shows what units did/did not have certain tank types? CMMOS has me confused for CMBO b/c it appears that if a certain tank wasn't historically present in a unit, then you can't apply the CMMOS unit markers to it, BUT it doesn't tell you that the application did not work. It's quite frustrating. Plz feel free to e-mail me or else respond here. kevinmst@yahoo.com Thanks, Kevin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 4, 2003 Share Posted March 4, 2003 Viceroy, no 8KRIH was not considered part of 22nd Bde, but in the 7th Amd Div all armoured vehicles carried the red stag of the 22nd Bde. It was painted immediately above the actual unit sign, i.e. on the right side (The divisional sign being on the left side). So below the stag you should see a Harp, the unit flash of the 8KRIH, if the Dingo belongs to this unit. It could of course be a liason vehicle from 5 RTR. They would have had about a dozen of them in their intercom troop. Commanders liked to nick them for scouting trips to the front. Silvio - I'll get right back to you, wife just came home so I'll just have to cook some dinner here Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Right, your question Silvio. Actually I have never found any kind of compilation, but of course one could probably gather the necessary information using several different sites and searchwords. If CMBO British/Commonwealth is your need, I'll be able to help out some right here with what I've got in my library and HD. Here goes in order of appearance in unit list: - Stuart V. Served in all UK/CW armoured divisions, namely in the Recce troops of the HQ Coy of the Amd Rgt, Amd Bn and Amd Recce Bn. These troops had a dozen honeys. - Sherman II, phased out of frontline service by june 44, except in Italy. I guess the odd one could be found in Sherman equipped units. - Sherman IIA, as well as Sherman IIC, in service only with 2nd Amd Rgt, 1st Polish Amd Div. UK/CW used this model only in Italy. Troops consisted of three IIA and one IIC. - Sherman III and Sherman V, equipped all armoured brigades of the Guards, 11th, 7th (except 22nd) and 1st Polish Amd Div. Also equipped all Army Tank Brigades except those listed under Churchill below. Platoons/troops consisted of three V and one VC. VC model also saw service in Cromwell units until arrival of Challenger. In the case of 22nd Amd Bde, they were never replaced by Challengers. - Cromwell IV and Cromwell VII, in service with all Amd Recce Rgts, of which there was one per Amd Div. Also in service with 22nd Amd Bde/7 Amd Div. Troops consisted of three IV/VII plus one Sherman VC or Challenger. - Cromwell VI and Cromwell VIII. In service originbally with Marine Armoured Support Group. Transfered to Cromwell Rgts after D landings. Serviced in all such Rgts in support troops, four to a troop plus IV/VII or Sherman for troop CO. - Challenger, in service only with the Amd Recce Rgts of 7th, 11th, Gds and 1st Polish Amd divisions. The "fourth tank" in the troop. - Churchill VI, Churchill VII and Churchill VIII, in service only with the Guards, 6th, 31st and 34th Army Tank Brigades. These brigades were semi-attacjed to infantry divisions and normally escorted by an armoured TD Rgt (i.e. Bn). Model VIII served in support troops. - Crocodile, served exclusively with the 79th Amd Div. In this division there were three Crocodile units: 141st Regiment of the Royal Armoured Corps, 1st Fife and Forfar Yeomanry and 7 RTR, all forming the 31st Armoured Brigade. Usually Crocs were lent out in small numbers to other units though. - Wolverine and Achilles, used in Antitank Regiments (usually but not always "horse" art Rgt), both in those of Amd Div and others. Too many to list. They operated in troops of four, often with scout car support (hunter-killer concept). - Archer, appeared in very very small numbers in some corps level AT Regiments. Which ones are unknown to me. The first 4 were shipped to France in july 44 and they never reached large numbers in the west. Used more extensively in Italy. - Sexton, served in Royal Horse Art Rgts and SP Field Art Rgts, both divisional and independent. Too many to list. Operated in troops of four. Gradually replaced Priest. - AVRE, Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers, served exclusively in the 79th Amd Div, 1st Assault Bde Royal Engineers. Organised in troops of six, operated in half troops of three. - Comet, served only in 11th Amd division, replacing all Shermans and Cromwells in this division (i.e. served in both Amd Bdes and Amd Recce Rgt). Hope this helps. Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted March 5, 2003 Share Posted March 5, 2003 Perfect!! Thanks Dandelion. SM 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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