A total victory

[Artmann]

Ok,

I tried the demo, two scenario to get a feeling. And the feeling was Advanced Squad Leader, without the rulebook !

So I play CM like I use to play ASL in my third try :

- find heights with cover,

- put HMG there,

- back HMG with 9-2 leader, sorry HQ,

- make a 'SchwerPunkt' with armors, halt-tracks and grenadiers,

- use a flank move, with a cover approch,

- fire artillery when you find infanterie,

- preserve tank for tank hunting,

- open-top armor are vulnerable to mortar,

- and put infanterie Upstair in building whenever you can.

And the result was Axis Total Victory ( 46 cas. vs 126 ) in the 'Last Defense' scenario, using a left flank attack !

This demo is Ok, I'm now waiting for the game.

Some remarks may be, and mainly for the AI stuff :

- Artillery seems to be not very impressive, a suppressive weapon may be ;

- Half-track where in full view of the AI, but it do not fire mortars at them, I have tried that, it works well (and kill 2 half-tracks) ;

- AI made a good job in Tank to Tank combat, really, in Squad to Squad combat, it could be bettered may be ;

- I have also seen AI trying to make a last-ditch attempt to destroy the last Stug, it do not works because of MG42 coverage, but it surprises me ;

- AI was somehow static in defense, no retreat, no hide then back to the building and so on ;

- AI play it bad on the right flank move along the wall, It could not understand that by closing the road from the bridge, the objectives will become Axis at one time or another ;

- and finally when AI try to launch reinforcement, it was too little too late, the 2 Tank Destroyers where destroyed (at the price of 1 Tiger and one Stug) as soon as they appear, and the last one was catch coming down the hill, and the infantery was pinned down by artillery, MG42s and squads in buildings on the other bank of the river.

This leaves me one Stug to reduce the strong point on the left flank, and win the game by turn 28 or so.

But all in all, AI play it well, the one major flaw comes from the setup, where he do not put any squad or bazooka against the wall.

Some strange things that happens, that is I still do not understand :

- one building was rubble by close-combat fighting (may be a very powerfull hand-grenade) ... ;

- I've got some video problems (Voodoo3 card ?) ;

And finally, one or two ideas or suggestions may be

- prisoners should be handled automatically (that is I think we shouldn't be able to give orders to POW, those POW should go to the rear their own way) ;

- a fixed number of turn is always a problem (it was true in ASL), it allows you to try some last stand or last effort ; a fatigue/attrition system where the game decide to halt the scenario when on overall fatigue/attrition condition is meet could be a way to search.

CM is a great thing, a very great thing. At last I have an AI opponent which is able to do something.

Thanks, reader, for your time.

Have mercy upon my english grammar, I'm French.

ARn

[Eridani]

Welcome to combat mission

Many of the issues you brought up (arty effectiveness and AI in paricular) have been long since perfected by BTS... Realize you're playing the beta of a six month old build...

search, or check cmhq for more information... but the full game (from what we've all heard) puts the demo to shame

-EridanMan

[Artmann]

Ok,

of course 6 months is eternity in computerland, but the facts are that I can just play the demo for now ...

BTW, it was not only criticism, it was objective criticism : AI play it well, even if it looses ! (Ah those games where you put AI to impossible level and then AI still loses, and those games where you put AI to easy level, and then AI never loose !)

ARn

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eridani:

Welcome to combat mission

Many of the issues you brought up (arty effectiveness and AI in paricular) have been long since perfected by BTS... Realize you're playing the beta of a six month old build...

search, or check cmhq for more information... but the full game (from what we've all heard) puts the demo to shame

-EridanMan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

Oh boy, where to begin..

First of all, good tactics. Congrates on your total victory.

OK, now to your "complaints":

Artillery--you're right, it isn't that effective in the demo. In the Gold version, the artillery has been tweaked to where it first shoots a fire-for-effect shot and then it bombards the area in a much more concentrated pattern.

AI not firing mortars at the HTs--Believe me, it does. The greatest thing about CM's AI is that its never the same game twice. The AI will change it's gameplan every time just like a human does.

Overall AI--Don't worry, in the full version the AI will give even the most hardcore wargamer a good run for their money. This Beta Demo is 7 months old. The final game is NOTHING like this demo.

AI not putting bazookas at wall--The AI never sets up the same way twice either.

Building rubble after hand-to-hand--I doubt it, it probably took several HE rounds from a tank.

A feeling of Advanced Squad Leader--CM started out as Virtual-ASL, but has transformed into much more. Also, "So I play CM like I used to play ASL". First of all, you must unlearn what you have learned from previous wargames, because CM uses entirely different calculation for victory and what designates a loss. (Don't ask )

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"Fear is the path to the Dark Side.

Fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to suffering."

--Jedi Master Yoda

[This message has been edited by Ol' Blood & Guts (edited 04-23-2000).]

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

The Gold Demo is due out in a couple weeks, so just wait until then, download that and then you can form a much better opinion about it and decide whether or not buy it. The full game is due to ship in late-May.

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"Fear is the path to the Dark Side.

Fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to suffering."

--Jedi Master Yoda

[Artmann]

Ok,

about ASL comparison, the focus I have in mind is the following :

1) CM is fairly newly design, no rules have been grabbed from an other old games, ok I've learned a lesson ;

2) but even with this in mind, CM is design to be realistic (the 3D effect), so the tactics you were used too might still be good, because they were used in an other game more or less realistic.

So there is no hex count, bypass movement, 9-2 leader, 2 half-squad, a MMG and a HMG for the firebase (and that is good); but you can still make a SchwerPunkt and hope it will works if you hit the soft point of defense (and that is also good).

ARn

[Artmann]

Ok,

there will be only two good reasons to buy CM, I had absolutely no time to play ASL the way it should (say face to face) in three years ; and worse my 9 months old son is very fond of wargaming pieces !

ARn

[Guest hunt52]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Building rubble after hand-to-hand--I doubt it, it probably took several HE rounds from a tank.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I thinks this was a documented (and squashed) bug. Every once in a while a grenade would take out about half the town in LD. (Not Good™ if you are the Americans. )

- Bill

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

Secondly, you may want to check out CMHQ at http://combathq.thegamers.net/ to get all the latest features and screenshots.

They have several sections that show-off some really neat screenshots and features that aren't in the demo. The webmasters of this site are beta testers and have been playing the latest builds for sometime now. So run over there and check it out! You will be knocked off your feet!

CM can be described as playing WWII miniatures on a computer with tracers, explosions, weather effects (night, day, fog, rain, snow, overcast), extremely detailed armour penetration calculations. Best off all, no clean-up afterwards! No dice, no rulers, no rulebooks to scurry thru.

BTS is planning on doing at least three more sequels to this. CM2: Eastern Front, CM3: Mediterranean Theater, CM4: Early War, so this CM:Beyond Overlord is by no means the end.

------------------

"Fear is the path to the Dark Side.

Fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to suffering."

--Jedi Master Yoda

[Guest Ol' Blood & Guts]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by hunt52:

Actually, I thinks this was a documented (and squashed) bug. Every once in a while a grenade would take out about half the town in LD. (Not Good™ if you are the Americans. )

- Bill<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? I've never had that happen. Must be lucky, I guess.

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"Fear is the path to the Dark Side.

Fear leads to anger.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to suffering."

--Jedi Master Yoda

[Artmann]

Ok,

Thanks for the links, I know them, but thanks anyway.

I appreciate your sense of humor, to call the first CM module "Beyond Overlord" and not "Beyond Valor" deserve a great LOL.

ARn

[Guest Big Time Software]

Hehe... All I have to say Artman is wait until you play the Gold Demo, which should be out sometime next month. It will be like playing a totally different (and MUCH better) game As for CM's level of realism vs. *any* game that has come before it, all I can say is get ready to be surprised a lot more. We call it "Unlearning", and it is the process of playing with realistic tactics in realistic circumstances instead of "gamey" tactics in sometimes horribly unreaslistic game systems.

If you have a particular question you should try using the Search feature. There are 40,000+ posts here and it is likely (as with your points above) that there are answers already posted.

Steve

[Guest JonS]

Hi Artmann,

I've one more thing to add - there are three scenarios available for the demo you (and the rest of us)have to play with

Last Defence and Reisburg came with the main download, and Chance Encounter was released a few weeks (months?) later. A lot of folk feel that CE is the best of the bunch, so enjoy...

www.battlefront.com/cm_scen.html

Regards

JonS

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Ubique