Madmatt's proven it!!! Blow jobs CAN be done in CM!!!

[Spook]

....blowing bridges, that is.

To answer what Madmatt's connection is to this, here is the thread link:

http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/013037.html

In that thread, when I saw how Madmatt explained how he was able to destroy "bridge" tiles with spotted 14-inch naval gun fire, with a target registration point (TRP) used to give a tighter shelling pattern, it got me wondering: Could this be used to model a "demolition job"?

So, rolling up the sleeves, it was off to the scenario editor. I created three bridges first---a "tall bridge", a lower "hard" bridge, and wooden bridge as seen in the picture below:

And to get the maximum HE punch onto any of these bridges, I used 14-inch gun spotters as Matt did. You may also notice that each bridge has a TRP on it. NOW TAKE NOTE---I was able to place these ONLY where there was a ground tile under the bridge. You can NOT place TRP's onto bridge tiles over water.

I then set for three 14-inch spotters to dump onto one bridge at its TRP, with three more dropping shells onto the other low bridge. The results in one turn (four shells fired per spotter) are as below:

(MuwahahaHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!)

Now take note at those oval "bubbles"---that's the explosion "shape" of a collapsing structure, whether bridge or building or whatever. These lower-level bridges went up pretty quickly in the first shelling (which was done with CM 1.05, BTW).

The taller bridge, however, proved a much tougher customer. Even though all six spotters dumped shells onto it instead of three, it still took two turns of shelling to drop at least one span. (This was repeated about five or six times.)

So if you want to rig up a bridge "demo job" in a scenario design, here are some guidelines:

1) TRP's can only be set on non-water tiles, bridge or otherwise. So without ground tiles set "in" the river, you'll have to set a TRP either at one end of the bridge or the other. (And anyone close to that spot will likely be killed by a 14-inch shell in the first shelling!)

2) If you want some "delay" built into allowing the spotter to drop shells onto the bridge, create the spotters as later-turn reinforcements. And set reinforcement points in LOS of the bridge when you want the spotter to "activate".

3) Naval 14-inch guns are available only to the Allies, and only during the "Normandy" (June-July '44) timeframe. So you'll have to set to this time period to get the 14-inch guns. Or for either side, you can try using greater numbers of heavy land-based artillery spotters (e.g., 8-inch or 170mm), but your mileage may vary on how many spotters it'll take. The tall bridges may be too tough to be targeted consistently by landlubber guns.

4) For multiplayer, make sure the side with the "demo" capability has it explained in the scenario notes that he's allowed certain "demo" spotters to be used ONLY against the bridge. And to limit possible further abuse, limit the number of rounds per spotter. The 14-inch spotter fires in salvos of four shells, so perhaps give each spotter only four rounds.

5) When aimed on a TRP, the shell pattern is not only tighter, but "fire time" is reduced. The 14-inch shells' first round took only 25 seconds to arrive.

This is pretty clunky in a way to simulate the means to blow a bridge, but for those special "river" scenarios like trying to cross the Rhine, there seems the option to work it in some way.

[Spook]

PS to Madmatt: If the title bothers you or doesn't seem "relevant", then go ahead and save the contents, delete this topic (or lock it), and copy it back under a new title. It was a meager attempt to match your flair for CM HQ topic titles.

[109 Gustav]

Have you had any sucess blowing up land bridges with any other guns? Like I said in a different topic, I tried with a bunch of 170mm spotters (elite, firing on TRPs), but none of the land bridges got damaged.

------------------

No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game

[Spook]

I guess I was more focused on whether or not a "bridge demo" could be simulated in one turn's time, than focusing on land bridges in specific. After all, land bridges are one of the "tall bridge" tiles that are VERY tough to be damaged. Regardless, in trying to see how well Germans could do instead (Germans don't have 14-inch guns), I decided to set up a new scenario with German spotters. The bridges were as before.

The settings were:

-six 170mm spotters with 60 rounds each

-six 210mm spotters with 40 rounds each

-six 240mm spotters with 40 rounds each

(all of regular experience)

The results:

The 170mm's fired all of their rounds (360 total, of which I don't know how many hit) and weren't able to destroy even one tall bridge tile. Neither could the 210mm's, after firing their 240 total rounds. The 240mm shells DID destroy a tile or two, but at an average of 25-30 shells per spotter, or about 150-180 rounds total.

But to the lower bridges, either the low wooden bridge or the low concrete bridge had sections destroyed after only one turn of shelling by the 170mm's AND with all six spotters firing. With only three 170mm spotters firing, the wooden bridge still lost a section, but the hard bridge held out for another turn.

So 170mm's CAN destroy the "low" bridges more easily than for the tall bridge, although if trying to simulate a "bridge demo", I would recommend at least six spotter units and/or larger-caliber guns, in combination with a TRP. (For the Germans, time delay was about 45 seconds for the first fire on this TRP.) As to the tall bridges---even trying to use multiple 240mm spotters seems too much a hassle. It's probably best not to bother to attempt a "demo" simulation on a tall bridge.

[This message has been edited by Spook (edited 11-29-2000).]

[WendellM]

From Spook's PS to MadMatt:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If the title bothers you or doesn't seem "relevant"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, AFAIK "blow job" was an actual American term used in WW II, but referred to the Me 262 jet fighter .

More to the point: good work refining this method for demolishing bridges, Spook.

[This message has been edited by WendellM (edited 11-29-2000).]

[Spook]

Thanks, WendellM. I think I's better get this edited & reposted in the CM Tips Forum soon, with a "Bridge Demo" title.

[Guest wwb_99]

25 second delay? I would think the shells had to be airborne for longer than that. What did they have, prototype copperhead rounds?

WWB

[Maj. Bosco]

If you want 14 inchers later in the war just buy them with the scenario time frame set to June-July and then set the time frame to whenever you want.