Multiple Mod Banks for random and chosen mods

[Slapdragon]

I am not sure what type of CPU load this would create, or if this would even be possible, but Shep in another thread just suggested a black soldier mod to do scenarions with black soldiers, and I thought, that is a pain though, switching back and forth.

Wouldn't it be neat for each unit or terrain type to have 3-4 mod slots. The first couple used for variants within the normal look and the last for those oddball mods that make the game unique.

[Tris]

I've been thinking that the kind of "mod" this game really begs for is way to set up batch calls for various .BMP sets. In that case it would be possible for people to, say, design all sorts of different looking light buildings and heavy buildings .BMP sets, and trees sets and whatever you want, then have these .BMP sets on the same themes produce themselves from within the editor on a random basis. If that isn't clear, when the editor called for such and such .BMP the batch file for that (former) .BMP number would instead be called (so I guess we'd need a batch file residing where the .BMP used to be) which itself would then start the randomization routine which would call one of the resident actual .BMP's within any given .BMP set--again, a tree, a building, a tank, whatever graphic was needed. The user would then be able to check on his map to see which .BMP had in reality been called, and if he wasn't satisfied with the batch file's selection the user could go back and run the batch again for a different effect.

To me that sounds feasible. Anyone have clear idea how it might be implemented?

[Guest wwb_99]

This idea is both feasable and practical for the most part. It would be very easy to design a batch file capable of swapping mods by essentially copying mods from different directories. Given that CM multitasks well, it would be little problem to switch out of CM and run the right set of mods between games. Note that this would not apply at all to Mac users. Now to brush up on MS-Dos......

[Slapdragon]

I was thinking that it could be a single variable added to files that use bmp or pict files that instead of directing to a single bmp, directs either to a random bmp, or to a user defined by game bmp. For example, the M4A3 may have bmp file 1-5 associated with it. You could use 1 as default, 2 as winter camo, 3 and 4 as custom jobs with equipment or camo, and 5 as a wild card mod for special games.

The down side is can the CD hold that much stuff? (Does it need to, maybe the game just ships with 1 and 2 filled) and could you make sure for example that units used the same mods to keep the game from looking like Kelly's Heroes on a bad day with 8 different camo mods on German tanks of the same company?

This is possibly not even possible without a big speed hit, or may not be feasible cross platform.

[Maj. Bosco]

Addding a variable would be messing with the hard coded stuff and we all know how fond BTS is of doing that...

[Chupacabra]

The problem I have with this type of random function is that it's just that - random. Since the CM engine would have no way of looking at a particular mod set and deciding whether it was consistent thematically and stylistically with whatever other mods you've got loaded, it might decide to give you, say, some pretty Southern French- looking houses with gloomy Norman terrain, and have your American Shermans driving around with Canadian markings.

I bring this up because I've also been thinking about this issue a lot, and I'd love to see a practical way to do it, but since software can't make value judgements, I'm worried that what you'd get would be an utter mishmash of inconsistent mods. If someone can tell me otherwise, I'd be a happy man, believe me. Don't tell anyone, but I'm pretty much a mod junkie myself...

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Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super.

[Tris]

What I had in mind was this. You begin to edit a map. Eventually you come to the juncture where you wish to place buildings or trees or whatever. You select an icon for scattered trees, say, then go check the map for its effect, right? The .BMP file which was associated with the icon you chose is now displayed. So the randomization routine must be established from within the map editor, not "on the fly" as users run the game. And why would capacity of CD's enter into this? I doubt if BTS would ever go this trouble (at least not as a discrete exercise initiated on their end); should the company chose to do so then an extra CD or two or whatever's called for could easily be burned and accounted for cost-wise and duly shipped with the order. Isn't that what they do now with their product?

Users who did not subscribe to this system but merely ran the stock .BMP's would be no better or worse off, right? The nomenclature of the called .BMP variables might run something like 506_0001.BMP and 506_0002.BMP and if a user did not have a corresponding .BMP then the game would automatically call for the stock graphic.

With schemes of this sort there is often an unseen bugaboo, and I'm not conversant enough with how this stuff works to see it. Perhaps someone else can and more closely articulate the proper means of implementation.

As a carp, I wish designers would give some thought to this business with an eye to encouraging third-party labor to enhance an existing work by building into their software such niceties and then provide directions as to how this would all work out in practice. It doesn't seem to me that what I propose would be any more difficult to code than the much less flexible approach which has come to be industry standard.

[Tris]

The problem I have with this type of random function is that it's just that - random. Since the CM engine would have no way of looking at a particular mod set and deciding whether it was consistent thematically and stylistically with whatever other mods you've got loaded, it might decide to give you, say, some pretty Southern French- looking houses with gloomy Norman terrain, and have your American Shermans driving around with Canadian markings.

This would be no problem as I have it envisaged. We could ramp up slowly and then iron out the wrinkles as they presented themselves.

For instance, how about if we began by randomizing just the buildings .BMP's? Let's say we all put our heads together and devised a way to pressgang this Magua chap into a dark hole somewhere and just kept him on bread and water until he coughed up a suitable array of unique rural buildings, both with and without snow effects--something on the order of a dozen or so variations for each structure should do the trick for our initial test--and then see how all that sat with our now-accelerated map editing sessions? If it flew, and I believe it would, then we could set our collective head to the task of finding another Magua-type to work on a "generic" set of trees for us, then move on, perhaps, to bridges and like that.

Each of these "sets" would be designed for a particular "theme" so as to ensure they wed together naturally once presented from within the game. For example, it should work out that to portray northern German buildings as distinct from French or southern Italian buildings then entirely new building sets would need to be constructed and kept in a separate folder until the time came when a scenario designer needed this various art. This would entail a swap, but to complete this chore we could once again rely on a batch file to do this with ease.

Isn't that so?

I bring this up because I've also been thinking about this issue a lot, and I'd love to see a practical way to do it, but since software can't make value judgements, I'm worried that what you'd get would be an utter mishmash of inconsistent mods. If someone can tell me otherwise, I'd be a happy man, believe me. Don't tell anyone, but I'm pretty much a mod junkie myself...

I'm with you all the way on the "junkie" part, my friend. But you have to blame all the wonderful users who've bothered to produce their mods in the first place for that. Left to my own dull devices I'd have no doubt been perfectly happy to get along the best I could with what BTS originally provided.

[Slapdragon]

I agree Chup, except that some mods, like having tanks in various states of repair and upkeep, would work ok, but a ginger bread house next to a wattle and daub or a brick house would get old.

For the buildings it would have to be thematic packs that default to a base.

[Guest wwb_99]

A pratical way to switch .bmps on the fly:

1) Place all of your mods in separate directories by set, i.e. c:\CMBO\MODS\Tiger's Tiger, etc.

2) create a complex batch file with several variables.

Var1: path for first .bmps to apply

Var2: path for second bunch of .bmps to apply.

Var3..Var10: same as above.

Have this batch file copy the contents of the indicated directories into CMBO\BMP.

This batch file sould be run out of the working directory for CMBO, and all mods should be placed in a subdirectory called MODS, which will take care if differing directory structures on people's computers.

3) When one wants to switch mods, all that needs to be done is to tap [ESC] to drop to Windows and run this batch file from the command line with the proper papameters, i.e.

'Run: C:\CMBO\bmpswap tiger's tiger ambush jpzV'

Unfortunately I have long since forgotten the syntax to make all this happen, but I do know it is very easy (I have designed such 'programs' in the past).

WWB

[coralsaw]

Quick and dirty tricks, such as fiddling with BMPs and directory names is like hacking.

My background is in software development, and though I cannot say what should be done, it seems to me that a sensible approach for CM2 could be the following:

- BTS includes a new data structure in the scen definition file that contains references to optional bitmap replacements (e.g. 1234_1.bmp) for the scenario.

- BTS modifies (should hopefully be easy) the code that pre-loads the bitmaps to check the scenario file for referencing the replacements and if it can't find them load the default ones.

- BTS provides a facility in the scenario editor for creators to associate new bitmap names to substiture for original ones.

This exercise should result in scenario designers specifying an alternative set of bitmaps and moders adhering to this naming structure.

I understand that it is quite easy to talk without knowing the code etc, but there's no harm in providing ideas to the good people.

Regards

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My squads are regular, must be the fibre in the musli...

[Pascal DI FOLCO]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wwb_99:

A pratical way to switch .bmps on the fly:

1) Place all of your mods in separate directories by set, i.e. c:\CMBO\MODS\Tiger's Tiger, etc.

2) create a complex batch file with several variables.

Var1: path for first .bmps to apply

Var2: path for second bunch of .bmps to apply.

Var3..Var10: same as above.

Unfortunately I have long since forgotten the syntax to make all this happen, but I do know it is very easy (I have designed such 'programs' in the past).

WWB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've just done such a package in order to swap from "classical" buildings (standard + the hires Classical mod), and Magua's "Rural" buildings.

It's quite simple :

- I copied Magua's bmps in a subdir "CMBO/BMP/RuralBldgs"

- I searched and copied all the "standard" BMPs with the same filenames than those in Magua's mod in another subdir "CMBO/BMP/ClassicalBldgs"

- in each subdir, I created a simple .BAT file with only one command :

"copy *.* .."

This copies ALL files of the subdir in the next higher dir (i.e. CMBO/BMP) and it works whatever the drive/dir name !

- And last I created 2 shortcuts on my desktop, one for each .BAT file. I gave them some appropriate icon to distinguish them (I took them from those proposed when clicking "change icon")

So whenever I want to change the landscape from city to rural, I just have to doubleclick on an icon !

[Guest wwb_99]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by coralsaw:

Quick and dirty tricks, such as fiddling with BMPs and directory names is like hacking.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whats wrong with a little hacking?

WWB

[coralsaw]

Well, I should have said, as opposed to proper software development.

One is a quick fix, the other a rather more permanent one.

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My squads are regular, must be the fibre in the musli...

[Old Dog]

Worth remarking that in a limited way, Marco Bergman's Sherman Mod Paks already do the batch file thing. He even has nifty little flag icons to click on for the batch files to load British, Polish, Canadian, U.S. and Free French marked Sherman armor as appropriate.

- Old Dog

[Guest wwb_99]

True, hacking is a quick and dirty fix, but they are both fixes. Unfortunately I cannot make the fix since I have no idea where my good ol MS-Dos manual is, so I have all but forgotten the proper syntax..

WWB