Guest Pillar Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 Just wondering how BIG a difference this card really makes when it comes to game play. I can't tell the difference based on screenshots, but I keep hearing of the wonders the "FSAA" can do. Is it worth the cash? I have a V770. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 For you with a TNT, then NO its not worth the money and FSAA is just a gimic. At resolutions above 1024x768 FSAA is VERY hard to notice and not worth the frame hit... Its a great card and fast as sin, but the TNT2 was also a great one and I can't justify dropping the big bucks for faster frame rate and slighly deeper richer colors. I bought one and really love it but then they don't call me Madmatt cause I am sane! ...ttamdaM ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 Sorry Madmatt. The FSAA is not a gimick, even at higher resolutions than what Madmatt is referencing to. The V5 5500 FSAAx4 makes a HUGE difference, even when playing CM at 1152x870. Madmatt, I've seen your example screenshots from your new card. It is said it has more vivid colors, but I'm telling you, my FSAA results with the V5 is quite an improvement than what I witnessed by your samples. Screenshots are hard to tell, you lose something. Hey, I got an idea. Why don't we attempt to get some side by side comparisons at the same resolution of the same scene between the GeForce and V5, both using FSAA! Let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 Sure, hop on the chat system when you and I have free time and we can set it up... Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 Sounds great. A few questions... 1) You do realize I'm one of those whiner pre-order fools still waiting for CM? 2) Aghhhh... what chat sytem? Over at TGN? Give me clues. 3) Who is that person on the CMHQ Annex page peering through the telescope? 4) Screen shots, will need some guidance with CM, but I'm pretty computer literate, being in communications software for business and computer nerd for life. 5) When is MDMP 2 due out? Can't help asking that, those MDMPs are really a good job and greatly appreciated. I'll flip even more when I finally get CM. 6) Who designs your CMHQ and CMHQ Annex web pages. Nice job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomasj Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 Here is my test proven results with V5 5500 FSAA vs. NVIDA TNT2. My neighbor had a TNT2 32mb RAM, so I asked if he would bring his machine over and we could compare the graphics monitor by monitor on each resolution we could muster. With no hardware FSAA on the 5500 the TNT2 was winning on all resolutions for detail, but after we kicked the 5500 even only to FSAAx2 the contest was over..5500 ruled, FSAAx4 took it even to another level all together but did seem to have a small speed effect on scrolling around the screen at resolutions above 1024x768. So then to be dubble sure about like hardware and all, we took the TNT2 and installed it in my 2nd machine here which is identicle to the other and the results were the same. Both machines in the final test were : P3-733FSB's / 133 bus Tyan 1854s Motherboards w/VIA Apollo Pro133+ chipsets. 128mb RAM Windows 98SE Absolutely nothing overclocked, and all video cards were running their latest official release drivers. Ummmm. Didn't know how to take screen shots, and ah, still don't ......can anyone help me on this? Thanks BTW: The statement up top about the neighbor had a TNT2 is correct, he has ordered a V5 5500. [This message has been edited by thomasj (edited 06-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 1) You do realize I'm one of those whiner pre-order fools still waiting for CM? No, whenever you get it is fine... 2) Aghhhh... what chat sytem? Over at TGN? Give me clues. Yes, the CMHQ-Chat runs off of both the Annex and CMHQ... 3) Who is that person on the CMHQ Annex page peering through the telescope? Me and thats no telescpe but the barrle of a British cannon from a World War 1 landcruiser... 4) Screen shots, will need some guidance with CM, but I'm pretty computer literate, being in communications software for business and computer nerd for life. Err. there are THOUSANDS of topics covering the how to's of this, just search.. 5) When is MDMP 2 due out? Can't help asking that, those MDMPs are really a good job and greatly appreciated. I'll flip even more when I finally get CM. No ETA set, but sooner than later... 6) Who designs your CMHQ and CMHQ Annex web pages. Nice job. That would be me. I am 100% responsioble for EVERYTHING that gets posted on either site. It was my first stab at HTML too! Most of it is all hand edited using FrontPage but I have some automated scripts that I am testing at the Annex... And in regradsd tot he TNT2 and V5500 test. The Tnt is NOT COMPERABLE to the visual quality of the GeForce. I stand by my earlier comments. At the resolutions I play at 1280x960 FSAA is NOT worth the effort. I am also on a 21 inch monitor, so perhaps thats a factor...YMMV Madmatt... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 06-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kump Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I am also on a 21 inch monitor, so perhaps thats a factor<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'm using a 21 inch monitor too, but that would only make FSAA even more noticable. As per the TNT2 and GeForce, yea, I agree, not comparable. Its got to be GeForce beside V5, which GeForce will win where FPS is important and colors being more vivid. But FSAA is where V5 shines and it makes a big difference, even at higher resolutions and especially on 21 inch monitors. I'll be in touch. Will be an interesting comparison, if screen shots can do it any justice. PS: So that it not a telescope? You are actually peering down the barrel of a WWI land cruiser. Wouldn't have guessed it in a million years. Still looks like a telescope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Grenadier Posted June 25, 2000 Share Posted June 25, 2000 I have a RAGE Orion and It works just dandy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudee Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Madmatt You couldn't be further from the truth. I've seen FSAA in action, at all different resolutions. FSAA makes a huge difference. I have no idea where you are getting your opinions from, but they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutbolHead Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rudee: Madmatt (clip) I have no idea where you are getting your opinions from, but they are wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's pretty funny! His opinions are wrong? Opinions by nature can't be right or wrong. Only facts can be substantiated as right or wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Opinions can be wrong. Have the opinion that a bullet to the head won't hurt you -- then learn the hard way how wrong you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudee Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 "Only facts can be substantiated as right or wrong" Well, if your stating that as fact - then you're wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Err actually you can all BITE ME. I am getting that opinion since I HAVE a Geforce II with 64mb and I have TESTED FSAA on resolutions above 1024x768 and I DONT THINK THE EFFECT IS WORTH IT. So Rudee belly up to the bar and have a nice tall glass of WARM SHUT THE HELL UP! Madmatt... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudee Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 "So Rudee belly up to the bar and have a nice tall glass of WARM SHUT THE HELL UP! Well sir, if you are trying to tell people that FSAA doesn't make a difference, then you need to get your eyes examined before you give out bad advise again. And for your information, I have seen FSAA in all it's glory on both the Voodoo5 and the GeForce2. If you have normal eyesite, it's painfully obvious. "FSAA is just a gimic." Umm, yeah, sure pal.. Tell that to the thousands of people who are playing their games in FSAA with the Voodoo5 or GeForce2. Maybe you should make your self an appointment with an Optometrist. Your credibility went down big-time over that post of drivel. [This message has been edited by Rudee (edited 06-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Rudee, you REALLY dont want to go round and round with me. Look at what I said. FSAA is a gimmick, its NOT a worthy feature to base a $400+ purchase on. EVERY major hardware and video review backs me up and says that as a standalone feature FSAA is not all that spectacular. BUT, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You think its makes the sun rise in the West then fine, happy for you, crank it up and enjoy it. For me I leave it disabled and I think my daily POTDS stand as testimony that its not necessary to enable to have a pretty picture. That being said, and in a effort to get this back ON TRACK, I will again test it out in more of a lab type environment in Combat Mission and report back my findings... Madmatt p.s. oh and one more thing, the opinions of someone who has posted a whooping 13 messages means just about ZERO to me and I really don't give a crap WHAT you think of my standing and you know what else? I don't care about my standing either... ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing [This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 06-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutbolHead Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar: Opinions can be wrong. Have the opinion that a bullet to the head won't hurt you -- then learn the hard way how wrong you are.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> A bullet in your head can be substantiated as fact, that's why it's right or wrong. It's not an opinion then. Opinions can be popular or unpopular, not right or wrong in the context that person used it in. Here's the definition I'm drawing on: o·pin·ion n. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright © 1996, 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. If it is proven, it's fact, not opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutbolHead Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rudee: "Only facts can be substantiated as right or wrong" Well, if your stating that as fact - then you're wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not. o·pin·ion n. A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition Copyright © 1996, 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. If it is proven, it's fact, not opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudee Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 "Rudee, you REALLY dont want to go round and round with me." Ditto.. "Look at what I said. FSAA is a gimmick, its NOT a worthy feature to base a $400+ purchase on." Well, it get's rid of the "jaggies" in all games, old and new. A good friend of mine is heavily into flight sims. For him, and thousands of others, FSAA has rejuvenated life back into games that were collecting dust. You simply cannot deny that FSAA adds a new dimension to gaming. "EVERY major hardware and video review backs me up and says that as a standalone feature FSAA is not all that spectacular." Every major hardware review backs you up??? Interesting... Some of the most popular hardware websites include anandtech.com, sharkyextreme.com and tomshardware.com. All three of them were impressed with FSAA. I suggest you visit the forementioned webpages and read the reviews. "BUT, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. You think its makes the sun rise in the West then fine, happy for you, crank it up and enjoy it. For me I leave it disabled and I think my daily POTDS stand as testimony that its not necessary to enable to have a pretty picture." Fair enough. But to tell someone that FSAA is "not worth it" is not a good recomendation, just because it doesn't appeal to you. "That being said, and in a effort to get this back ON TRACK, I will again test it out in more of a lab type environment in Combat Mission and report back my findings." Alrighty... By the way, judging someones opinion according to how many posts he or she makes is being very narrow minded. [This message has been edited by Rudee (edited 06-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Hmmmm, I just tested FSAA in Combat Mission at x4 and the newly enabled x8 setting on the 5.30 drivers and i still am not seeing any big differences but there one aspect of my recommendation that should be made clear. When I said its not worth it I am saying that dropping 450 dollars or more for the video card I HAVE is not worth based solely on FSAA as a feature. This debate can go on and on but what the guy was asking if it was worth the upgrade from a TNT2 Ultra (770 which is what I had) and for HIM, I can say that NO its not worth the money. From other video cards it very well might be. But to drop that much money thinking that FSAA is some sort of game saver doesn't make sense. To you maybe it does. I have only tested FSAA in Combat Mission, Unreal Tourny and Star Fleet Command. I will be testing it much harder and more complete the rest of this week. Maybe it is the savior of old games. but I also love flight sims and can not think of any that are so jaggy as to make it that much of a difference, but I will be testing so maybe I am wrong. I will say that from what I have heard and read the implimentation of FSAA IS better on the Voodoo 5500 than on the GeForce II, so that may also be a factor. This has got me curious and even with your less than stellar way of entering this thread, I will conduct as fair a test as I can. Those who have been around and know me well rest assured that I will be very thorough... Madmatt ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission Combat Mission HQ CMHQ-Annex Proud members of the Combat Mission WebRing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudee Posted June 26, 2000 Share Posted June 26, 2000 Madmatt I've seen Janes Longbow II and F/A-18 before and after FSAA. A very noticable difference indeed. Here's a link to some nice before and after shots of FSAA. A Voodoo5 5500 in this case. http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/hardware/features/voodoo5/index4.shtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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