L4Pilot Posted February 19, 2000 Share Posted February 19, 2000 Okay, try this one on for size. For CM 1.1: I know there was a suggestion(s) to limit the views to No. 1 and No. 5 centered on your units. I like that idea as a toggle. But for that side lucky enough to have air superiority and the spotter plane available (L-4, Storch, Auster...) then you are "permitted" views No. 3 and 4 and the freedom to move around at those view levels. And you have the option to place a FO in the spotter plane, which could be very handy. Unless of course, your viewpoint strays too close to your opponent's AAA assets. At which point there's a chance you'll lose your spotter and be limited to views 1 and 5 again. When you really think about, views 3 and 4 show just how useful the spotter plane was in the battlefield environment. Okay, okay, I know. Too much time on my hands. Must have Combat Mission! NEED COMBAT MISSION!!! [This message has been edited by L4Pilot (edited 02-18-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted February 19, 2000 Share Posted February 19, 2000 Actually, I'd like to see L4s modeled in the game as a type of FO unit <G>. BTW, I need some info on how L4s were used. From what I understand, in WW2 they were (at least in some cases) assets of the arty regiments of infantry divisions. Did every infantry division have L4s? If so, how many? If not, how was it decided who got them, and how many were used in 1 squadron? Thanks. ------------------ -Bullethead jtweller@delphi.com WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4Pilot Posted February 19, 2000 Author Share Posted February 19, 2000 Bullethead -- You are correct - L4's (and L3's and L5's, etc.) were attached directly to the FA although I don't remember whether at the divsion or corps level (or both). The pilots were FA officers (and noncoms, IIRC) because the army found it easier to train artillerymen to fly a Cub, than to teach pilots to spot artillery. I don't remember what quantities the liason aircraft were alloted to the units and my book "Fighting Grasshoppers" (very good but apparently OOP) is in eternal storage. As you can tell from my CM monniker, this is an area of interest for me - and I owned the civilian version of the L-4 for over a decade (just flew it again Thursday), so I've picked up some of the exploits of the L birds (like the proverbial dogfights between Grasshoppers and Messerschmidts (sp?,)with the spotter plane coming out on top, or the L-4 pilot that attached 8 bazookas to his struts and went "tank busting" - popping over hedgerows, firing a bazooka or two and then gone before anyone could react. A little risky for my taste, but ya gotta admire the instinct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted February 19, 2000 Share Posted February 19, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead: Actually, I'd like to see L4s modeled in the game as a type of FO unit <G>. BTW, I need some info on how L4s were used. From what I understand, in WW2 they were (at least in some cases) assets of the arty regiments of infantry divisions. Did every infantry division have L4s? If so, how many? If not, how was it decided who got them, and how many were used in 1 squadron? Thanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Bullethead, IIRC most of the answers can be found in 'Closing with the the enemy.' I think... Doubler, Michael D., - Closing with the enemy : how GIs fought the war in Europe, 1944-1945. - Lawrence, Kan. : University Press of Kansas, 1994. - (Modern war studies). - 0700606750 It's amazing what you can learn from a book - or a Disney movie ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4Pilot Posted February 19, 2000 Author Share Posted February 19, 2000 Germanboy is right - p 47 of my edition reads in part: "Aerial FO's provided the best means for observing enemy targets. In First Army each division had ten light aircraft assigned for liaison missions, and each corps headquarters had from fifty to seventy aircraft." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Babra Posted February 20, 2000 Share Posted February 20, 2000 Who provided the spotter planes assigned to naval vessels on June 6? The USS Corry was sunk by the 8" guns of the St. Marcouf battery after her spotter was shot down by flak. She emerged from the smoke screen protecting the rest of the fleet and stood in close to fire direct on beach positions. ------------------ Floreat Jerboa ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Germanboy is right - p 47 of my edition reads in part: "Aerial FO's provided the best means for observing enemy targets. In First Army each division had ten light aircraft assigned for liaison missions, and each corps headquarters had from fifty to seventy aircraft."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks muchos L4 and Germanboy. For some reason, I didn't see these replies at the time and only just now found them via the search thingy (see new guys, it does work <G>). I will have to get Closing with the enemy. BTW, what's the endurance of an L4? ------------------ -Bullethead jtweller@delphi.com WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I've picked up some of the exploits of the L birds<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There's a "Willie and Joe" cartoon where an L4 pilot draws his .45 pistol, sticks it out the side window, and tells the guy in the back seat he's going down to strafe ------------------ -Bullethead jtweller@delphi.com WW2 AFV Photos: people.delphi.com/jtweller/tanks/tanks.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 Back to the spotter plane question: would any spotting intel be relayed from Jabo attacks to their respective ground forces? This is not an artillery question at all. If a fighter-bomber attack overflew enemy ground formations (tanks, troops in the open) that were previously unspotted by friendly ground forces, would the information be relayed to them? Perhaps shown in a form similar to sound/unidentified vehicle contacts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gyrene251 Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 Spotter planes were an important part of the artillery battalions intregal to US Army Divisions during WW2. To read an account go to http://www.trailblazersww2.org/ferree.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted March 3, 2000 Share Posted March 3, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV: Back to the spotter plane question: would any spotting intel be relayed from Jabo attacks to their respective ground forces? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> From all the accounts I have read, first I think that Jabos had problems identifying their own troops ; second I don't think that the information chain worked that way. I have never come across an account where they put it in reverse, but maybe I just haven't read enough - sounds like my PhD... ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L4Pilot Posted March 3, 2000 Author Share Posted March 3, 2000 Bullethead: That Mauldin cartoon sounds great. I'll have to search and see if there are any internet archives of his cartoons. And the endurance on an L4 was about 2hrs 45min. On 12 gallons of gas. I can tell you fram experience, you get very nervous eating into the last 30 mins of fuel. And re: Jabos spotting enemy ground forces - may have happened but not very often. Too high speed and low altitude. Doubler goes into this pretty well and confirms what Germanboy suggests: that Jabos (P-47's, et. al.) had trouble indentifying friendly vs. enemy as targets until steps were taken to improve communications. These included providing ground forces with radios that had air unit frequencies, better use of identifier markers and (evidently) most important, FAC's in (you guessed it) spotter planes to direct the incoming Jabos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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