Statistics on bogging: terain

[Joeri]

Mr Hofbauer

Of course it's not smart to advance your tanks in reverse when you expect contact. As aka_tom_w pointed out you can avoid getting bogged in your rear area by reversing.

I always seem to get bogged in my rear where my tanks can do noting the rest of the game . If they get bogged while cresting a hill at least you have a nice pillbox (for as long as it lives).

To answer your 'ground pressure' comment. I am aware of the importance of ground pressure in bogging chances. I used a M4 Sherman in the tests. It's ground pressure is 13.? psi. Most medium/heavy tanks have a value of 13 something so it's seems representative for most tanks.

The reason I did my test was to find a way to reduce chances of bogging when you are playing. Since you cannot chance the ground pressure of your tanks during the game it has no relevance in my tests. What I wanted to know is which type of movement and which type of terrain to choose/avoid.

The ground pressure of tanks is most relevant when you are in the force selection screen. If you know there will be bad ground conditions you have to choose low ground pressure tanks.

I hope this clarifies the reason I did not include ground pressure in my tests. Of course I would be very interesting to know how ground pressure affects the chances in order to make a better force selection. Any volunteers?

jshandorf

I don't think elevation or inclination has anything to do with the chances of bogging, but of course I could be wrong. If you feel strongly about this you could do some test and prove me wrong I would sure welcome some other similar test to compare the data.

Joeri

[caralampio]

Actually, the lessened chances of bog in rough terrain make sense, not because of protruding roots and fallen branches but because the tree and bush roots tend to hold the earth better than grass roots do. Also, puddles are less likely to form in these terrain types. OTOH vehicles will tend to lay down bushes and grain before them, forming a sort of mat that prevents the earth from becoming muck.

Caralampio

[Lee]

These test results sound very odd indeed.

Steve, what's going on here? If these are some sort of bugs, they

need to be fixed. Everything seems to be working backwards.

[Maj. Bosco]

I guess we'll all be using archers in rainy games now.

"That's GAMEY! You're reversing your tank everywhere!"

"The gun is bass-ackwards so I drive the tank bass-ackwards. Whiner."

[PvK]

There's also the question of how "more likely to bog" is best measured. These tests measured in terms of time (turns). But it could also be measured in terms of distance. If a tank is bogging less often in broken ground and mud, how much slower is it moving, and what is the relative difference in distance between bogging events?

Apart from the seeming bogless reverse issue, the other one that bothers me is the Hunt move being faster than the Move move - if the Move move is slower, why is it "less alert"?

PvK

[Gronk]

Well, I have never driven a tank, but I used to work for a logging operation in Washington State. I have had a bit of experience operating a medium sized "Cat" (bulldozer) in very muddy conditions. And I can state from experience that it is indeed less likely to get bogged in "scattered trees" than in the "open". This is mainly due to the root structure of the trees. The roots provide both support and grip for the tracks.

Also it is much easier to get unbogged when there is a tree nearby. The standard way of getting unbogged is to attach the winch line to a tree and pull your self out. This is of course impossible if there is no tree around.

I can’t comment on speed vs. chance of betting bogged, as the Cat that I drove had only two speeds (slow and slower).

I can say that rotating in muddy conditions is a bad thing to do as it tends to dig you into a hole.

[Lepton]

I'll second Gronk's experience with tracked vehicles in "scattered trees". The root systems of the trees not only seem to provide more structure to the ground and prevent soft spots from forming, but they also give traction in those spots that are muddy.

As far as speed, faster is often better. The inertia of the vehicle usually works to your advantage in letting you plow through spots in which you might get stuck at slower speeds. Too fast, of course, and you can not identify those spots that are nasty in time to avoid them.

[Joeri]

PvK

Your right about the bogging chance per turn/distance remark. I forgot to measure in my first test (terrain type) the distance that was covered by the vehicles. I did compare the distances in my second test (movement) and as I posted the distances were all equal.

It seems that the people with experience driving tracked vehicles agree with the decreased bogging chance in rough terrain as modelled in CM. I guess my initial expectation was just way off and CM get it right again. Only problem left is the no-bogging in reverse issue. I contacted Madmatt about this by email and he is having a look at it.

Joeri