Ben Galanti Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 3 quick questions/answers that I could find via search: 1. Why are German 120mm mortars cheaper then 105 howitzers? The have a larger blast and fire more quickly. Is it purely the number of rounds? 2. What's the difference between the 88 pak43 and the 88 pak43/41 (besides they look different) Are they pretty much identical with respects to game play? 3. Do fighter-bombers not come in sometime? I was making up test scenarios to play around with them, and they didn't always seem to show up... especially if I had them coming in on the first turn. Am I missing something? Thanks for any answers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted August 18, 2000 Author Share Posted August 18, 2000 Doh! If I'd bother to read the manual, I would see that it states that Fighter-Bombers might not show up at all.. Anyway, my other two questions still stand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr. Johnson-<THC>- Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 First the 120mm mortars are off map arty, while the 105 howitzers can be used in the direct fire role like an infintry gun. They both have their good points and bad points. Hehehe, can't distub the gun crews of off map arty. Not sure about your second question. I wondered myself. Maybe the blast shield protects the crew just a little bit more on the 43 pak? I don't notice that in the game at all though. Seems odd we have 3 88 guns in the game. Maybe only the weremacht and SS get the 43, while the poor volksgernaders get the 88 flak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben Galanti: 1. Why are German 120mm mortars cheaper then 105 howitzers? The have a larger blast and fire more quickly. Is it purely the number of rounds?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Mortars, even those as big as the 120mm, are much cheaper to build than guns or howitzers. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>2. What's the difference between the 88 pak43 and the 88 pak43/41 (besides they look different) Are they pretty much identical with respects to game play?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The Pak 43 was on a special low profile AT carriage, whereas the 41/43 was an improvisation on (I think) the 105mm howitzer carriage. Thus the 43 would be easier to hide (though still a big gun compared to the 50mm or even 75mm). Michael [This message has been edited by Michael emrys (edited 08-17-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 I'll just have a handy look-see at my unit database.... Crap!! I haven't added in artillery or on-board guns yet! But the weekend approaches and I've got some nifty additions in store for the database... Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben Galanti: Why are German 120mm mortars cheaper then 105 howitzers<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think the main reason is availability. The mortars were common with one battery per [infantry] battalion while the howitzers came in one battery per regiment (plus as divisional arty). So a battalion would (almost) always have access to a mortar battery, but rarely to howitzers. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pascal DI FOLCO Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson: I think the main reason is availability. The mortars were common with one battery per [infantry] battalion while the howitzers came in one battery per regiment (plus as divisional arty). So a battalion would (almost) always have access to a mortar battery, but rarely to howitzers. Cheers Olle<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As already stated, mortars were way more common & cheaper than howitzers. But look also at their range and their accuracy : due to the crude design of the mortar, they are also less effective. And their ammo is limited... ------------------ PDF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.Tankersley Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 Because I couldn't resist..... 3 unrelated answers: 1. Yes, but only at night. 2. That varies with the size of the tires. 3. You need to coat the hamster with grease first. ------------------ Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted August 18, 2000 Author Share Posted August 18, 2000 Woah, bunch of answers... Mr Johnson, Sorrry, I should have been moerclear. I meant the offboard 105s are more expensive then the offboard 120mm mortars. Michael, I was wondering if one was larger then the other, but since there's no 'silhouette' value for them I wasn' sure. Since they have the same penetration values, but are slightly different costs, I figured there had to be some difference... Gauchi, The reason I noticed that the 120mm mortars were cheaper then the 105 guns. Your database is a great piece of work. I was wondering about the guns and arty though Olle, That may be the reason. I never thought of it that way... Pascal, at least in CM, all the offboard arty is of relatively the same accuracy. The assumption made is that the gunners won't FFE until they have the target correctly ranged. There ammo is somewhat less. The 105s have 15 rounds by default, and the 120mm only has 12. That may account for the difference in cost right there. Still, the 120mm seem like a much better deal.. Leland, 1. I thought it was just every other friday 2. Are you sure it's not number of cylinders? 3. I always thought it was weasles and vasoline... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadayne Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 no no no!!!! if you really must know, it's gophers and duck tape. must I explain everything?! ------------------ "Well then private, it must be sh*t. Good thing we didn't step in it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ben Galanti: The assumption made is that the gunners won't FFE until they have the target correctly ranged. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you sure about that? I always thought the 150 (or larger)mm rickets were so cheap because they were so imprecise (and have a puny loadout). BTW, the loadout difference is not 3 rounds, but 3 salvoes of 4 rounds. Meaning you have 12 rounds more impacting, which can make a big difference. ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted August 18, 2000 Author Share Posted August 18, 2000 Andreas, You're right about the rockets, they are much more imprecise. Look at the following thread for the details (which probably should make it into the FAQ) www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/008115.html I set up a similar test last night comparing the 120mm mortar, the 105mm gun (offboard), and the 150mm rockets. Both the 120mm and the 105mm had the 100mx50m blast pattern described for normal targetting (except for the spotting round, whic is anywhere within about 100m of the target.) The rockets do have an about 700m diameter target area. The target areas are always centered on the spot you have selected. You're right, each ammo point actually represents a salvo of four shots. So, the 105mm does get 12 more shells then the 120mm. The blast rating is larger for the 120mm obviously though. The 150mm rockets do only get 6 salvos, but you can buy 2 of them for the price of one of the others, so you do end up with about the same number of total shells hitting (just as long as you don't mind it being over that 700m area) For targetting in LOS, TRPs only affect the time to FFE. Not accuracy (Bullethead goes into more detail on this in the post above.) Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 Ben, thanks for dredging that one up, I email the link to Jason for inclusion. Anything (well almost anything) Bullethead contributes should make it into the FAQ for arty. I love it when my opponents get rickets, all over themselves. So much fun to watch... ------------------ Andreas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sitting Duck Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 L.Tankersley said - "..." Very. Very. Funny. Very. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 18, 2000 Share Posted August 18, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson: ...the howitzers came in one battery per regiment...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Are you speaking of the regimental cannon company here, Olle? I thought it contained six 75mm light infantry guns and two 150mm heavy infantry guns. Did they change the TO&E later in the war? It's plausible that they might, but I didn't know. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted August 21, 2000 Share Posted August 21, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: Are you speaking of the regimental cannon company here, Olle? I thought it contained six 75mm light infantry guns and two 150mm heavy infantry guns. ... Michael<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sort of... The Germans had an infantry gun company like the one you describe. I don't have any exact numbers for the guns but you are probably right. The armoured Panzergrenadier regts had one battery of SP 150mm IG. British infantry brigades doesn't seem to have any organic arty apart from the battalion 3" mortars. Lorried inf brigades had a battery of 4.2" mortars. US infantry regiments had the cannon company with a battery of 105mm howitzers. The Armoured divisions had separate battalions of armoured infantry with one assault gun battery (M8 or M4(105)) each. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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