Call for suggestions: how to create a recon scenario

[Guest smbutler]

I've been thinkng about ways of simulating an amored recon mission using the CM engine. As I see it, a recon mission employing light armor needs to

1-move into an area

2-make contact with the enemy

3-gather info about the kind of opfor units

and their strengths

4- exit the area while minimizing losses.

A possible way of simulating the above:

1-creating a map with no objectives to take and hold

2-setting up an exit side of the map

3-having opfriendly units move forward, and, after making intial contact, moving them

across the map to the exit side, which is generally opposite the player's starting point.

Ideally, all of the victory points would be

accumulated by exiting av's. Moving ACROSS the map would simulate the need to make contact and gather info, while the absense of objectives to hold would allow the recon units to run away (see #4 above) without penalty.

I think that the opfor units should be relatively light since these would represent forward positions, and not the main lines. I could also set up opfor reinforcements, which would represent the enemy response to this armored probe.

I've put together a trial scenario, but I'm having a hard time getting my light av's across the map in one piece. That's fine: it reflects the inherent danger of recon. But will I be able to win if I am able to exit

most or all of my units?

Comments? Suggestions? Criticisms?

One question: how would setting the scenario parameters to "probe" (vs. attack) affect the accumulation of points?

[Guest Germanboy]

I am actually looking into recon scenarios as well. I guess the kind of TO&E you need for the scenario depends. In UK infantry divisions, the Recce regiments (BN sized) were equipped with armoured cars, carriers, trucks and AT guns. At www.wargamer.com/cm you can find a document by John Salt giving their TO&E. In UK armoured divisions they were quipped with MBTs (Cromwells) also, although some squadrons also had armoured cars I believe.

In the IDs, they had one assault platoon per squadron, made up of lorried infantry. The task during the break-out of Normandy (Seine and beyond) was not just what you said above, but also to keep the Germans from setting up rear-guard roadblocks, by pursuing and engaging them fast, keeping them off their toes. I would imagine a typical engagement to be:

1. motor down a road towards village

2. bang, 1st car brews

3. make out where fire originates, deploy to screen, using AT guns, MMGs

4. probing attack, by dismounted assault troop supported by mortar and gun carriers, armoured cars

5. if enemy defends in strength, wait until big friends arrive, call in arty.

I am not sure whether you would want them to move through the enemy positions to the opposite end of the road. That appears to be very risky to me, and I doubt that a Recce unit would have done that, unless they expressly were told to go and seize (insert important objective), by-passing enemy pockets. That is a task for an armoured unit breakthrough. A Recce unit would appear to be extremely vulnerable, cut off like that.

But if you are interested, by all means email me, and we can have a chat about designing such a scenario, although not this week.

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Andreas

[This message has been edited by Germanboy (edited 06-26-2000).]

[Blackhorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

At www.thewargamer.com/cm you can find a document by John Salt giving their TO&E. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems The Wargamer is no more...

[Guest Germanboy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Blackhorse:

It seems The Wargamer is no more...

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Blackhorse - I corrected the link. Was on the wrong machine and had to work from my memory - growing old I guess.

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Andreas

[Blackhorse]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

Thanks Blackhorse - I corrected the link. Was on the wrong machine and had to work from my memory - growing old I guess.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mucho gracias

[Guest smbutler]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Germanboy:

I am actually looking into recon scenarios as well. I guess the kind of TO&E you need for the scenario depends. In UK infantry divisions, the Recce regiments (BN sized) were equipped with armoured cars, carriers, trucks and AT guns.

[non-quote]I prefer smaller scenarios because they run faster. Certainly the scenario you described in your post would be do-able, though. It would require a pretty large map, with multiple objective markers laid out pretty much in a line so that the recon units would get more points for pushing forward. Some of the small objective markers, I should think, should be easily reached; this way the player could earn some points for completing the first two or three steps you describe. If they wanted to push their luck, they would have to check out the positions flanking their line of advance, etc.

I am not sure whether you would want them to move through the enemy positions to the opposite end of the road. That appears to be very risky to me, and I doubt that a Recce unit would have done that, unless they expressly were told to go and seize (insert important objective), by-passing enemy pockets. That is a task for an armoured unit breakthrough. A Recce unit would appear to be extremely vulnerable, cut off like that.

[non-quote]Good point; I wonder if the "probe" option in the parameters would remove the need for exit hexes....

But if you are interested, by all means email me, and we can have a chat about designing such a scenario, although not this week.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds good, although I will be without email at various points this summer. I will, though, have access to the web (long, complicated explanation for this) Let's keep going on the forum. I'm sure other folks might be interested in this.

PS, does anyone know anything about armored recon tactics for US and Wermacht recon units?

regards,

smb

[This message has been edited by smbutler (edited 06-26-2000).]

[Guest Germanboy]

About size, I imagine what I described to be reasonably flexible - from one troop (platoon) upwards, with a variety of different vehicles thrown in. I can imagine scenarios in which you are not expected to take anything, but get your points on the basis of units extricated, e.g. when you run into a superior defense force with some armoured cars and a few carriers full of infantry. Lots of fun to be had.

As for German recon forces, since they were on the defensive, were they not most often used in the line at this time in the war?

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Andreas

[V B]

Ofcourse Germans used recon Defensive positions had to know what they were up against. The best way to simulate a recon patrol is to use infantry as your forward observer and then bring the light armor up behind it. Use the terrain. Try making a large # of small flags that leads from one end of the map to the other. ANd make a exit zone on the other side of the map. Good luck.