Kill! Pause! Reverse! Weird thing! Bug?

[Jarmo]

The topic explains it all really

But in case someone didn't quite get my meaning:

It's about the tactic of ordering your tank to fire at a target,

and reverse away to not expose yourself unnecessarily.

To give yourself a bit more shooting time, you give your tank

a brief pause command before reversing.

So the problem: When you do this with a turretless assault

gun, the ugly tankling shows a targeting line towards the enemy,

but doesn't actually turn to engage it. It just stands there

motionless until the pause duration has passed, or until

the enemy kills it.

Is it meant to be this way?

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Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of

our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir?

[JoePrivate]

I have just noticed the same thing in a QB. I ordered a Stug to area fire then reverse/move away after a delay of 30 seconds. It never even turned to fire, just sat motionless, then carried out the movement orders. I used to be able to do this earlier. Has something changed?

[Guest Madmatt]

I have recently been talking about this on the Chat system.

The game seems to interpert a PAUSE command as a halt to all hull movement. On a turreted vehicle its not problem as the turret can still track. With an assult gun the Pause command wont allow the hull to rotate.

I have come up with a way around this that seems to work in testing I have done.

You are aware that movement commands issued one at a time will be carried out with no delay. I call this continuing the movement chain. You end the chain buy clicking another unit or hitting the space bar. Now then, you can ADD to the chain by issueing new movment orders but that new order will incur a delay penalty of several seconds.

So what I do is plot the HUNT order forward and end the movement chain. I then ADD to the movement chain by plotting a reverse order. This adds a command delay in between the Hunt and Reverse commands.

During the turn the StuG (or other applicable unit) will advance, engage and then retreat in about the same time as a turret unit with a real Pause command.

If you want to increase the delay then you can plot very miniscule Hunt commands of only a meter or so straight ahead. That's a little more tricky though and can backfire by exposing your flank.

My guess is that it would be tricky to code a PAUSE exception for turretless vehicles so I wouldn't expect to see a change to how it works now. Just my .02 though...

Madmatt

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[This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 09-05-2000).]

[JoePrivate]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Madmatt wrote:

You end the chain buy clicking another unit or hitting the space bar. Now then, you can ADD to the chain by issueing new movment orders but that new order will incur a delay penalty of several seconds.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This applies to commands given to a unit in the same turn? Or the next turn? If in the same turn that's new to me. I'll have to try that.

Your comment about pause stopping all hull movement raises the question then if the assault gun was pointed in the right direction to fire, would it fire given a pause command? Perhaps this is what I saw/did earlier and hadn't noticed the hull facing until now. Thanks for the feedback.

[This message has been edited by JoePrivate (edited 09-05-2000).]

[Guest Madmatt]

This applies to commands given to a unit in the same turn? Or the next turn? If in the same turn that's new to me. I'll have to try that.

Yes, thats why it is always wise to do all your movments commands at once for a given unit. If you stop after one command, click somewhere else and then come back and add another movement command, you will get a delay. When I get home I wil ltry and locate this bit of info in the manual.

Madmatt

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If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ!

Combat Mission HQ

CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission

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Host of the Combat Mission WebRing

[Grognerd_Fogman]

Madmatt I don't see that kinda pause happening at all. To test it, I just loaded up the tutorial scenario an played the German side (Ver 1.05). I placed the two identical PzIVg's on the road. I issued one a fast movement order and then continued with a reverse order back to the original starting spot (same orders issue). The other tank I gave the same fast order (parallel) to proceed the same distance on the road as the first tank. Clicked off of him an then went back to him and issued a reverse back to his original spot. Played it out and both tanks moved exactly the same. Is there something I missed?

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Thanks for Athskin!

[JoePrivate]

Yeah I just checked myself, there is no delay for commands given in the same turn even if you click off and then return to issue more. There is a delay however when you issue new movement orders to a unit with an existing chain from the previous turn.

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JoePrivate:

I used to be able to do this earlier. Has something changed?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just tested this with 1.01, it's the same as with 1.05.

I guess it's as you suspected, you were already facing

in the right direction.

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Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of

our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir?

[82nd Airborne]

I must have missed something in a patch. I could have sworn it says that "pause" command only works at the beginning of a turn an is not available between "hunt" and "reverse" for example.

I think the multiple HUNT waypoints is the only way to simulate the delay required prior to reversing to safety. (hopefully)

[The Commissar]

I thought so as well, 82nd, so this is news for me

Well, it was this way in the gold demo and I assumed it did not change. Glad to hear it did tho, will add to my future games!

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"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[Jarmo]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 82nd Airborne:

I think the multiple HUNT waypoints is the only way to simulate the delay required prior to reversing to safety. (hopefully)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The way I understand hunt, the vehicle stops as soon as it

sees a tank, and stays stopped until the tank is dead.

So multiple hunts wouldn't simulate a delay.

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Now, would this brilliant plan involve us climbing out of

our trenches and walking slowly towards the enemy sir?

[Guest Michael emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JoePrivate:

Yeah I just checked myself, there is no delay for commands given in the same turn even if you click off and then return to issue more. There is a delay however when you issue new movement orders to a unit with an existing chain from the previous turn.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's how it's always been for me. I think this time MM got it wrong. Shame, shame! Bad MadMatt, bad!

Michael

[Priest]

The way I have seen is that waypoints cause delay. I think that is what Maddmatt is getting at. So the Tutorial example above will not work. Try this: Two tanks forward, one with just the end waypoint and the other with one waypoint in the middle. The one with no waypoint in the middle should be faster. That is what MaddMatt meant by saying that to extend your pause just add a couple of hunt waypoints. Again I am only guessing but that is how I read Matt's post. I have seen it to work this way.

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Sir are you sure you want to go to red alert...it would mean changing the bulb

-Priest

[This message has been edited by Priest (edited 09-06-2000).]

[Huron]

I just did a quick test with MadMatts method and didn't notice any pause for the vehicle with more waypoints. Only thing was, that it's sometimes hard to get a straight line when using several waypoints, so there was a very small pause for the unit when changing direction a little.

Something totally unrelated but funny happened, though. One M8 was bogged down near the map edge at the end of it's movement orders, wile reversing. To my suprise, it continued to roll and finally went off the map all by itself.

Huron

[This message has been edited by Huron (edited 09-06-2000).]

[Guest Madmatt]

Hmmm, Perhaps I erred?

I will test this some more when I get the chance.

I guess that I have just been lucky with my Hunts that my units enaged and then popped back after a few seconds. I was thinking it was because of my total grasp of the game system. Turns out that maybe it was pretty much ignoring me and doing what made sense.

Let me try this out some more when I get home.

Either way, I have notified Charles about this to have a look.

Madmatt

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If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ!

Combat Mission HQ

CMHQ-Annex, The Alternative side of Combat Mission

CMHQ-Annex

Host of the Combat Mission WebRing

[This message has been edited by Madmatt (edited 09-06-2000).]

[Guest KarlXII]

I think Madmatt is getting at the delay caused when you add a new movement order/waypoint to one that was issued but uncompleted in the last turn. This will add the standard command delay between the old and the new orders.

To utilise this effectivly you will have to first plot a hunt command up that ridge with the appropriate pause so that the unit doesn't crest it. Then the next orders phase you have to add the reverse order.

Just my swedish krona.

Henrik

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Fire for effect!

[82nd Airborne]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jarmo:

The way I understand hunt, the vehicle stops as soon as it

sees a tank, and stays stopped until the tank is dead.

So multiple hunts wouldn't simulate a delay.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmm, good point. Must be my perception. It just seemed if I had a tank crest a hill with HUNT then go to reverse it would only take 1 shot and then bail out. When I put a couple of HUNT waypoints(basically a metre apart) it would fight a bit before retreating. Will have to watch a little closer to find out I guess.

Cheers

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What you see depends mainly upon what you look for.