Ammo dump??

[bighead]

Is it possible to add a or some ammo dump to resupply your troops, cos they run theirs low very quickly?? Just a thought, might be too late to mention.

[Bobbaro]

The designers feel that the battles are too short in duration for ammo resupply to be realistic. This is an issue that seems to me to be better left in the hands of the scenario designer. In the longer possible battles, up to 2 hours, I believe there is time for resupply. It is a poor commander who fails to make every effort to make additional ammo available whenever possible.

His success on the battlefield can depend upon it.

On defense a larger supply may be available in the static positions. A static rear supply point could also be used and mobile supplies as well. Icons could be devised and made available in the scenario design or withheld as the designer sees fit. Safeguards against design abuse could be built in.

However, I feel that an overabundance of safeguards is not desirable. If a scenario designer designs badly there is nothing that can be done about it in anye event. Cutting off bad design features in little pieces still leaves the core of the sceanario available to be screwed up anyway. As with bad television, the player has the tools in hand to quit the session. I think where Steve and Charles worry is about an otherwise good design having worrysome small defects.

In another thread,if I recall correctly, Steve suggested (ruled?)that it would take maybe 15 minutes for a tank at a resupply point to halt, communicate with the service personnel, pickup the ammo assuming it was in a "ready" state(uncrated), carry to the tank, pass it to the interior, stow it, and finally get started again headed for the action. There is very strong point to what Steve said there. Perhaps 15 minutes is generously short. Of course you don't necessarily need to take time for a full load when you are in a hurry.

Another issue is the size of the battlefield which raises the question of whether a supply point would be available that close to the front. I think it would depend. Certainly not a dump's worth. But, a forward supply point within CMs framework is possible. On the otherhand a whole dump could be an objective in rear area penitration scenario.

I would like to see at least a resupply system where a commander would be able to handcarry, or jeep to some forward location out of harm's way (hopefully) company supply points and certainly a battalion point. A jeep or even a tank could hustle up some ammo to a unit while a reserve platoon etc. holds the line. If there is room for reinforcing units, then there is room for supply units to hustle some ammo forward as well. If they fail, then it is part of the play and as legitimate as any other battle loss.

A depleted unit falling back on a resupply could find a new life and a successfully executed attack could be sustained. With infantry at last for gamers being accurately modled, I believe there is every reason to consider resupply, otherwise why bother to have larger battlefields and longer scenarios possible. I hope after the Gold is given some play time these issues will become clearified so that further consideration will be given them.

One solution to the question could be to cut back on the limits set on battle duration and battlefield size so that the restriction would be better supported.

Yes, there were abundant situations where operations were suspended with both defender and attacker exhausted of both energy and ammunition. But, there were pleanty of others where reinforcements arrived either in the form of new bodies or resupply. Ammo resupply to physically exhausted bodies would mean a lot more to defenders holding in place than it would to attackers. I can see a small reinforcement setting up a delaying position while the tired reminants from the front lines, fall back to a second line of defense and pick up fresh ammo and await the delaying force and the attack with renewed capability.

This game is better than even Steve and Charles know. The potiential for refinement is strong. Play will tell. So will the infusion of more capable hardware setups in the playing community, because hardware limitations are another issue that plays a role in all decisions as to what to include or add to the game.

[This message has been edited by Bobbaro (edited 06-02-2000).]

[tss]

The standard policy for Finnish AT gun units on defence was to prepate two or three different firing positions, time permitting. Each different position was supplied with AP and HE shells. Of course, pushing a 75 mm AT gun to a new firing position takes quite a long time but there were cases where changing positions happened during a single combat, for example, at Polviselkä 11.6.1944.

It is difficult to say how often units were actually resupplied in the middle of combat. In particular, accounts often lump all combats that happened during a day to one big battle, while there may well have been many long pauses without any fighting.

As a practical example, I could mention the only M-3 Grant that was destroyed in Karelian Isthmus on summer '44. One account mentiones simply that a Panzerfaustman immobilized the tank and then crawler near it to finish it with two Molotoc coctails. The account made it seem that it happened in a short period of time. However, another account mentions the fact that Soviets actually dug the tank in between the two attacks! There had to be _many_ hours between the attacks, since emplacing an immobilized Grant is not an easy job. (The Soviets emplaced the tank because the combat happened at Vuosalmi bridgehead and Soviets were busy bringing in new material over the pontoon bridges so they didn't have the possibility to evacuate damaged tanks.)

- Tommi