Sten Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Fionn posed a very important question in the "IMPORTANT! CM VOTE!" thread. As can easily be seen from all the answers, almost all members of this forum (that cared to answer) think that the game should ship without TCP/IP. I feel an almost irresistible urge to yell, "Ship it now!" (BTW, does that make me part of the 'Twitch crowd'? ) but that might not actually be in my best interest. Every fiber in my body wants the full version NOW, but more than that, I want CM to become a big hit. I want all reviewers to give it 100%, five stars, two thumbs and warm recommendations. Because I want BTS to make sh*tloads of money, to set an example to the rest of the companies, and to produce more titles like CM. I will probably never play CM online. I don't think very many people will. But will the reviewers realize that TCP/IP is not that important to CM? BTS often says 'get ready to unlearn'. Will the reviewers play the game long enough, to 'unlearn' enough, thereby realizing that TCP/IP is mainly superfluous? Some will, but the majority? I don't know. I think I'd rather wait an extra couple of weeks for CM than to risk the really good reviews that MIGHT come without TCP/IP but are guaranteed with it. The decision is an important one, but I think many of us (myself included) might be just a tad too inclined to bow to our impatience. Maybe BTS should just decide this one for themselves, without our (maybe shortsighted) advice; after all, they have more riding on this than any of us. Just my 2 öre. Sten [This message has been edited by Sten (edited 12-07-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 HEy man I would have to say that I think you area really mistaken thinking no one wants TCP_IP I havent found anyone that I have conversed with on the game that feels that way. SS_PanzerLEader...out BUI CAN WAIT SHIP IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 SS_PanzerLeader: That's not what I said, nor what I meant. I'm sorry if I was unclear. My main point was that CM might lose sales due to less-than-excellent reviews done by reviewers who think TCP/IP is VITAL for an enjoyable game against a human opponent. I don't think TCP/IP is VITAL to enjoy CM, but I do want it as an option, and so does everyone else. But are a few weeks worth the risk of poorer reviews? Sten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS_PanzerLeader Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Well I responded to this in another thread but I'll give ym two cents onthis again I feel based on what a tremendous job already and their proven customer dedication any reviewer that is worth listening too will see the wonderful merits of the game, also taking into acount The statement BTS made on the vote etc. I feel this only helps to distinguish BTS as being diffenrent from the rest of the money hungry pack. i think that any reviewer wanting to give a proper review would either A> put in full details of why it was released early or B not review until the TCP version is out Otherewise in my book and anyone with any sense, would realize their credibility as a revieweer is S***T have a good one SS_PanzerLeader...out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rommel Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Ok i'll agree on one point, some reviewers might mark it down because of the fact that it has not tcip/ip but the fact of the matter is that what BTS has that many do not is CUSTOMER SERVICE. They are listening to what their customers want and delivering. I'll probably be playing this game for at least 2 or 3 weeks maybe a month before i even think about going to multiplayer. As for reviewers there have been many already that have spoken highly of the game itself, I think if anything they'd just say that BTS wanted to appease popular demand and will release TCIP/IP connection within a few months after release. But remember, if we wait for TCIP/IP they said that it could take up till MARCH! if it was just a week or two longer, maybe, but hell man i want to play! Release the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 I couldn't agree more. But, the standard you(SS_PanzerLeader) and I use to judge reviewers by need not be the same as someone elses standard. Since BTS's chosen method of distribution rules out the 'spur-of-the-moment' buyer who happens to see the game in a display window, they are even more dependent on reviewers, word of mouth, usenet and forums like this one. Possible excerpt from the bestselling computer magazine from Fictional Reviews Inc : (Motto: "We test games for AT LEAST 60min for each review!") ".....CM gets 4 stars out of a possible five. A functioning TCP/IP would have gone at least halfway towards that coveted fifth star, but as it stands, CM's got excellent gameplay for the single player, but with PBEM as the only realistic multiplayer option it would take like FOREVER to beat the crap out of your best friend." I'm not saying that I think BTS should wait, just that everybody should offer this some thought before they jump on the 'Ship now!' bandwagon. Sten [This message has been edited by Sten (edited 12-07-99).] [This message has been edited by Sten (edited 12-07-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Guys, I honestly think that not having TCP/IP won't be a big deal as far as reviews go. I've done reviews for 3 sites and pride myself on really digging into the core of the game etc to give the best review possible. I contact the publisher with a real or made up tech problem for every game and if the response isn't up to scratch I say so, which extended to me writing an editorial about this on The Wargamer about a year ago about one experience. I don't know anyone else who does this kind of stuff which I feel is above and beyond the call as it were. HOWEVER I also don't think most reviewers do the minimum they need to do. Gamesdomain or Gamespot (whichever one has Tim Chown) put out a preview based on the beta demo in which it was TOTALLY obvious neither the reviewer or strategy editor (both of whom wrote about CM ) had read the readme. Furthermore this preview was put out within 4 days of the demo being released, meaning it was written within 2 days of release. My point is that we needn't worry about reviewers marking it down about TCP/IP. The job most of them do is so shockingly bad that there will be far more basic things they don't take the time to understand. They might mention TCP/IP incompatibility as a negative but what really will make their minds up is the fact that they don't understand the limitations of warfare in WW2 and complain it "isn't like CC" or "West Front" or something silly. I can count the people I'd trust to do a good strategy game review on one hand. Unfortunately CM will undoubtedly be reviewed by many who shouldn't even be in the same room as a real strategy game. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted December 7, 1999 Author Share Posted December 7, 1999 Fionn, you're probably right. Maybe this is really a minor point and I was being overzealous in my attempt to get CM the reviews it, IMHO, deserves. I trust you and your experience enough to hope that it won't matter, if you say so. I thought I had a bleak view of reviewers as a group, but again you surpass me with a wide margin. I was quite surprised and disappointed when I read GamesDomains preview of CM. Up until the I'd always held GD in quit high regard for their often relatively well-written reviews of strategy games. Both Tim Chown and Bruce Geryk (sp?) still belong to the reviewers I would trust, even if this knocked their halos askew somewhat. Compared to most other gaming-sites GamesDomain is among the best, IMHO. Sten [This message has been edited by Sten (edited 12-07-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 Sten, That's why I'm not allowed to write about everything I want to . I tell it like I see it and that usually isn't good politics . As for reviewers I'd trust: Scott Udel (VERY good... I don't agree with all his reviews all the time and especially I don't agree with some decisions he's made a forum moderator at CGO BUT he's very good and can be trusted by wargamers IMO ) , Henri Arsenault (sometimes does previews and the odd review IIRC), Bruce Geryk and myself (hehe ) are the only people who do reviews who I trust on grognardy games. That's not to say that I always agree with them 100% or think every game they like is good etc but most of the time they're on the money. Bruce also writes some very good strategy editorials. He only does one every few months but I find them very good. I suggest you go read them if you haven't yet. The reason I don't think TCP/IP will matter is that the standard of reviewers is so low that they'll miss so many other things that it won't matter. I've read a lot of the US and UK gaming mags and some of what they call strategy coverage is just a joke. i can still remember certain reviews in which it was clear the reviewer had never read the manual etc. Last point... Sten, the more I get to see the whole industry the more I realise it needs shaking up. The PR side, the development side, the publishing side and the press aspects could all do with a shake-up IMO. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Posted December 8, 1999 Author Share Posted December 8, 1999 Fionn, you said "The reason I don't think TCP/IP will matter is that the standard of reviewers is so low that they'll miss so many other things that it won't matter." Funnily, that's the same line of thought that made me think that the reviewers would think TCP/IP is a serious matter. Most of them are not serious enough to realize that it isn't THAT important. Sten Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverendo Posted December 8, 1999 Share Posted December 8, 1999 Have you met many reviewers who actually knew what TCP-IP was? :¬) Anyway. I don't mean to be hopping mad about the release date, and I do know game programming is anything but an easy task. So may what I'm about to say be regarded as a proof of interest and total BTF worshipping: Now that the polls show we can wait for TCP-IP, how long do we have to wait for CM? :¬) Please don't kill me, I'm too young to die. ------------------ Regards Reverendo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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