CoolColJ Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 as an owner of a RealRed patched Close Combat 3, I thought this was only thing that conjured the feel of Saving Private. Plus I just bought West Front, and thought something was wrong, here was a game that still used systems that existed on my old C-64 and AMiga! What had happened to wargame developement on computers, with all the cpu power and graphics we have now, I asked myself. And then I stumbled upon a preview of your game after an email with I received from someone on Talonsofts discussion board (where I told them they needed to do something to West Front in frustration) - YES my dream have come true!!! Arghhh now I have to wait CCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 Welcome and thanks for the praise. But you should feel lucky about the wait. Some people here have been following CM's development for a YEAR Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted August 20, 1999 Author Share Posted August 20, 1999 Well I've put your page up at the Close Comabt 3 centre, home of the CC3 grognards and REALRED patch makers So I'll expect a whole hoard to be on their way here - most are hanging for CC4, not me CCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted August 20, 1999 Share Posted August 20, 1999 CCJ, You have a problem with West Front too? It bugs the @#$% out of me. I tried to make myself play it again last night so I would have one more game I could PBEM, but I can't stand it. I'm not sure what it is about the game but I think that something about the interface just seems incredibly awkward to me. The most frustrating part about it is until CM comes out, how else are we going to tac level combat on Win 95/98? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 CCJ, I gave up on Talonsoft's xxxxFront series after my first experience w/ the orginal East Front. A horendous piece of junk to say the least. As far as CC series goes don't even get me started there. I actually have bought and played all three of them, but the gross inaccuracies and problems w/ making head to head play work in all 3 of the games in the series have made me vow to not even consider buying CC4 unless they make some very drastic improvements. And something tells me that I'll be so happy playing CM that I won't even need to bother looking at CC4, or any other game for that matter, for quite some time to come Ahhhhh Steve, I think I've been waiting around for Computer Squad Leader / CM for something more than a year. I used to surf the old BTS (long before the CM chat section was ever added) and Avalon Hill webpages pretty frequently. I can remember for the longest time on the BTS page where there was nothing more than a short blurb on the upcoming title and a single small picture of a squad leaders head in profile holding a pair of binoculars if I recall correctly (taken from the front of one of the AH SL series boxes if I'm not mistaken). And at the time the game wasn't even called Combat Mission. Not sure when that was, but it was way over a year ago. Heck, it's been at least a year since the CM chat page was added at the old BTS website, right???? Mike D aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 08-20-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 thx for spreading the word CJ but I think many of the CC grognards are aware already but for some reason are sticking to their cc guns. Trivia question: What was this projects title before the split with Avalon Hill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 Computer Squad Leader or Advanced Squad Leader IIRC. I'd better be right with one of those or I'm gonna be told off . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 I believe I started following CM in early or late spring of 98. There was a pretty lively forum at that time as well. There was a lot of shock amonst the old grogs when they discovered that "Beyond Squad Leader/CM" wouldn't be a straight conversion of SL/ASL. I remember serious discussions regarding whether CM should display "DR" results. Some one suggested that Bigtime should provide a piece of string with CM as a sop to the old guard. There was also a lot of resistance to the idea that you couldn't interrupt the game to determine if or when to do Defensive Fire. CM has been a long time getting here... I should know this. CM was called "Beyond Squad Leader" originally if I remember correctly. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 Answer to question: Computer ASL(Advanced Squad Leader). Seems that AH also tried to get Atomic to computerize the ASL system which spawned the Close Combat series. Too bad that AH was so far behind everyone else in computer gaming, I do believe that Hasbro is going to convert some of the AH titles to the computer Diplomacy should come out at the end of the year but based on my experiences with Hasbro games(Axis and Allies) in particular do not expect a whole lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 Guys, Beyond Squad Leader was the Atomic conversion title of ASL if memory serves me right. Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Talley Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 Now that I think about it, I believe it was Computer Squad Leader. I seem to remember the acronym CSL. But then there was a period when it didn't have an official name after the split with AH. At that point, I believe it was called BSL or CSL until Combat Mission was selected as the official name. Is there anything to take to improve the memory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRourke Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 I still would like to see a straight port of ASL.. not that what BTS is doing isn't immeasurably better, but ASL sort of had a neat, and totally unrealistic chess like feel to it. At the very least, when CM2 comes out, I want to make a "Commisar's House" scenario. I seem to remember last year, CM was heading for a winter/spring release.... under AH's wing of course. And I thought I could never wait that long. I guess I'm learning to be patient. No wait, I'm not patient in the least about this.. I want it now now now. Well, I guess I'm learning to deal with my frustration. Ya, thats the ticket. Chris ps I don't mean to suggest that I want CM released before its ready.. I have plenty of faith in BTS to get the job done right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted August 21, 1999 Share Posted August 21, 1999 Yes, Beyond Squad Leader was what Close Combat was originally called. The ASL fans were not happy with it from the start because it was really only using the Squad Leader name, and not more than that. They, of course, wanted it to be a literal translation. Computer Squad Leader was what Combat Mission started out as. At first Charles saw the game as an improved Squad Leader (not ASL) on the computer. He started out trying to make a literal conversion design with lots of improvements. But it didn't take Charles long to realize that, as good as SL/ASL was for a boardgame, it was a poor candidate for porting to the PC. Of course every diehard ASL fan would disagree with this, but the reasons are logical. The reason why SL/ASL worked was that it came up with paper and dice rules for complex real world situations. It wasn't very easy to play even with these, but it was certainly better than others. However, the artifical SL/ASL rules aren't necessary when you look at the abilities of a computer. So the artificial paper and dice rules actually HINDER gameplay on a computer. The upshot was that once Charles decided to go for realism instead of tradition, Computer Squad Leader was left on top of a 4ft high pile of modules in the room next to his office. So beganeth Combat Mission! And I don't know what is up with those CC people. They hate the game, hate the developer, and curse the day either came into their lives. Yet they love to play it and bitch about it. Show 'em Combat Mission and most say "ah, not a serious game" or "eh, it is ugly". The funny thing is that the people that complain the most about how terrible CC's accuracy and gameplay, are least interested in learning anything about Combat Mission. Most are just happy to look at one screenshot and declair that it isn't really anything interesting. There are, however, a few exceptions, and hopefully there will be more once the CM demo is out. But trust me, there will be a bunch that will want to have nothing to do with CM. Their loss Steve P.S. I just have to make sure this forum doesn't turn into the flame fest that is the Gamestats BBS. Good God is it ugly over there at times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted August 21, 1999 Author Share Posted August 21, 1999 Well seeing as a lot of people own CC3 here - Close Combat 3 is quite a decent game when patched with Realred v805, it adds new units, removes ones like Js3, modifies all weapon kill probs to be more realistic, infantry survivablity (believe me you'll be scared to take that tiger back into town by itself again! ) and unit spotting (infantry much harder to spot under heavy cover) and rare units are actually rare. Visit this site for Realtred http://www.ionet.net/~rgretz/ Visit this site for CC3 resources and forums, extra maps, utilities, senarios etc http://cc3.gamestats.com/ In fact some people behind Realred have full patches for similating France 1940, D-day and beyond, Casino with new maps , toally different units, sound files etc! Read about here - http://members.xoom.com/ardennes/ These are the sort of people you need on your side! Their seem to be 2 types of CC3 gamers on MSN those that play the original, and the hardcore Grognads like me that play REalred v805 (with its own ladder) Hopefully CM will attract these people onboard as well CCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoolColJ Posted August 21, 1999 Author Share Posted August 21, 1999 its true - my first reply to my posting on http://cc3.gamestats.com/ said the game is ugly and wouldn't consider it on looks alone, but I told him they were alphas only , and steered him here, where th new screenshots, he then said it looked much nicer. But what I hope what convinced him, is the feature set that all Realredders crave from CC3 CCJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted August 22, 1999 Share Posted August 22, 1999 v805 hahahahaha I dont play the game but thats great that another room was put up for real red. I noticed a lot of cc2 dreams happening for the cc3 community like the real red ladder. The reason I laughed about v805 is I remember juggling patches for cc2. I'd throw in the FO patch for play with one friend then Das Fuch's east front patch for another game and the maps we're only partially cracked at the time so we were putting new maps in the space the old maps were in thus if you were playing a camp with someone you'd have to go back in and move the old map back into place. Kind of sad but the homespun patches were generally better than Atomics version of the game so anytime I'd find someone clued in we'd play it patched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted August 22, 1999 Share Posted August 22, 1999 Lokesa, this is EXACTLY why Combat Mission is being made hacker unfriendly. We applaud people fixing flawed games, but sometimes the cure is as bad as the problem it wishes to fix. If enough people think CM needs a fix (so long as they are historically correct) we will fix it. The LAST thing we want is a half dozen patchs, most of which are buggy and themselves flawed, ruining the smoothness of CM play. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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