Brian Rock Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 I haven't noticed anything about the interface yet. Kind of wondering. Too mnay good games have been kneecapped by weak interface design. For example, HPS Sims' _Tigers in the Snow_ and _Panthers in the Shadows_ games. I'm not bagging them, because in many ways they are quite good games: highly tailorable, lots of units, very detailed, and so on. I can forgive them the so-so graphics, and even the use of hexes (just ), but the interface seriosuly frustrates me. It seems to take a lot of mouse clicks to get something done, and it's not always clear exactly what should be done at any given stage. So my question: how straightforward, intuitive and efficient is the CM interface? Rocky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 I'd like to toss in my 2¢ worth on this subject too. I haven't played the games Rocky mentions (being a lowly Mac owner), so I won't comment on them. My main gripe is with those game interfaces that take up so much real estate. This is especially a problem with small monitors such as I have (14"). At some point in the turn, I want everything to go away but the map. It would be nice then to be able to open a (small) window to get information or to give orders. But most of the time I want to see nothing but vast expanses of map in all its raw, naked glory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 CM's interface *IS*, without a doubt, the most powerful and intuitive system ever to grace wargaming. Since 90% of the total interface is in and working right now, this is VERY safe for me to say. We are planning on showcasing the interface soon, but until then you can look at the screenshots in the Spotting/LOS area. This gives you an idea of how easy it is to gather information and how it will be displayed. But here are some basics you won't find there... You interact with the units through combinations of mouse clicks, hotkeys, and menus. All hotkeys can be displayed with one click so that you can refresh your memory without hunting down the manual. All "tools", like targeting, LOS, and rotate work exactly the same way. Select order, point, get feedback attached to the mouse, and click. Simple as that. Movement orders are kick ass beyond belief Check this out... To give a unit orders, click on it to make it the selected unit (duh, pretty easy so far!). Then select an order to issue by using a popup menu or hotkey (keys are quicker!). Then a line is produced from your unit to the mouse cursor. The line is color coded to the specific order you have selected. As you move your cursor around it tells you what terrain you are passing over. When you find just the right spot, click and the order is placed down. If you click and hold for just a sec, you are allowed to keep placing orders as waypoints. Hotkeys can be used at any point to change the current order being placed (i.e. you can plot Move, Run, Crawl, and Move all with 4 clicks and 4 hotkeys in one go). After each waypoint is placed the name of the order is written above it so you can step back and easily see what your unit is going to do and HOW it is going to do it. But it gets better... Each waypoint takes the form of a white 3D triangle (except for the last, which is a 3D square) which you can click on to MOVE it. Say you want to make your complex move patter more zig zaggy, or notice that you are going to intersect some woods. No need to wipe out your entire movement path, just scoot the offending waypoint until you are happy with the results. This allows you to plot complex moves without having to undo them simply because you want to make a small tweak near the beginning. You can then add more orders, or delete them, just as easily. Oh, and did I mention that you can click on a waypoint and change the order just by hitting a hotkey or using the menu? Nice, huh Let's see... what else... oh yeah! After you have plotted a unit's moves, and they are starting to be carried out (i.e. after an Action Phase has gone by), all waypoints turn RED colored. This means that they are in the process of being carried out. You can not delete them without making your unit take a Command and Control pause (variable depending on lots of stuff). HOWEVER, you can move the waypoints slightly to make minor course corrections. The degree of change depends on the quality of the unit (a Green one might only be able to scoot each by 5m, while an Elite one 25m). This simulates the unit's individual ability to take initiative on the fly. And any order can be changed without penalty (i.e. change Move to Run). You can add orders to the end of the current path, but your unit will stop and take a C&C pause, after reaching the end of the current set, before carrying the new set. And this stuff is NOT dreamland material! It has been in and working for about 1 month as described, though a large percentage has been in for about 5 months or so, and some for about 1 year. There are many other subtleties to the movement system, but this should do for now Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 Michael, Because many 3D cards are fixed at 640x480, and software mode demands max drawing speed, CM's entire interface is based on 640x480 size. Check out the screenshots, all of which were done at this resolution. If you have better hardware, greater resolutions are yours for the taking. The benefit is that you will see more of the battlefield at any one time. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 BTS wrote: >>Let's see... what else... oh yeah! After you have plotted a unit's moves, and they are starting to be carried out (i.e. after an Action Phase has gone by), all waypoints turn RED colored. This means that they are in the process of being carried out. You can not delete them without making your unit take a Command and Control pause (variable depending on lots of stuff). HOWEVER, you can move the waypoints slightly to make minor course corrections. The degree of change depends on the quality of the unit (a Green one might only be able to scoot each by 5m, while an Elite one 25m). This simulates the unit's individual ability to take initiative on the fly. And any order can be changed without penalty (i.e. change Move to Run). You can add orders to the end of the current path, but your unit will stop and take a C&C pause, after reaching the end of the current set, before carrying the new set.<< Sorry for quoting such a big paragraph but the contents therein were so new and significant ... well ... that it needed repeating! Now let me get this straight. You're saying that during the execution phase you'll be able to make minor adjustments to your orders - some of which may incur a C&C cost. Am I right? If so, then that's very interesting. One question it begs is will the game pause while you make these slight adjustments? Methinks it's time to add to your FAQ! Here I was thinking that during that minute of execution I could sit back, put my feet up, and watch the show! Are you guys intent on sending me to the casualty ward with heart failure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 By the way, Brian, it was "Tigers on the Prowl". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 Marko wrote: > You're saying that during the execution phase you'll be able to make minor adjustments to your orders - some of which may incur a C&C cost. Am I right? My assumption on this (which I'm sure Steve will correct if I'm wrong Is that you can change orders which you laid out in a previous order phase, and that have been partially completed during an execution phase. Like if you plot a path into a grove a trees, and after one execution phase the unit is half way to the trees. During the next planning phase, you could move the final end point say 10 m to the left or something (This is all assuming your unit didn't get pinned down by that HMG42 you didn't know was there...) The question I had about giving orders was, will you be able to add way points in between two current points? Say, add an extra zig between way points 2 and 3 of a point path? Or will you have to add the extra point to the end, and then move all the others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 Ben, you are correct (no need for hospitalization Marko ). The adjustments to a movement path are done in subsequent Orders Phases, not during the Execution Phase. One VERY hard rule that CM has is that all interaction with the Execution Phase is one-way only. You can see stuff, but you can't influence it (other than the VCR controls, of course). We are not going to change this for ANY reason. We thought about allowing waypoints to be inserted. But it would be a pain to code and might even involve a speed hit. Therefore, we decided to not do this unless there was a pretty clear need for it. Personally, we don't think there is. There is plenty of flexibility with the existing system as is. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 Steve said: "Because many 3D cards are fixed at 640x480..." etc. Let restate my concern which had nothing to do with resolution or map *size*. In, for instance, Atomic's games, a major share of the screen is occupied by informational windows *that cannot be made to go away*. These take up screen space that I would rather have devoted to map most of the time. Correct me if I am mistaken, but as I recall, the screen shots and movies you have released thus far suggest that you are following the same course. Or is this just peculiar to the alpha versions? BTW, 640X480 is just fine with me as that is my permanent screen setting. Any higher rez and it gets to be too hard for me to read on-screen text, etc. on a 14" screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 I just remembered after I punched the "Submit Reply" button: you also had non-closable windows in OTR and ASP. Although they were occasionally a problem in those games, they were acceptable there. It occurs to me that they would be a bigger problem in CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted February 24, 1999 Share Posted February 24, 1999 Michael, I should have been more specific. What I meant by "CM's entire interface is based on 640x480 size" is that we are creating an interface that will take up as little room as possible, with 640x480 being our benchmark resolution. In other words, we aren't going to do ANY interface that mucks up the screen space for this resolution. We hate wasted map space just as much as the next wargamer, so have no fear Take another look at some of the screenshots in the LOS/Spotting pages. What you see for interface is what you get. That "bar" at the bottom is all the interface there is for general gameplay. The rest is displayed on the map itself, like when you click on a target its unit type name (ex: "Jagdpanzer IV") appears right above it, along with range info and hit probability. There are a few "model" (i.e. immovable) dialogs that can be called up on demand. However, these are once in a blue moon sorts of things. For example, there is one that displays what all the hotkeys are. In short, if you are playing 640x480 you will have the max amount of screen space available for map display as possible. Steve [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 02-24-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted March 1, 1999 Author Share Posted March 1, 1999 I appreciate that your designing for a common denominator at 640x480 - something I wish flight sim programmers would consider ("min specs: 1,500MhZ PIII with 2.6Gb of RAM... ). However, for us lucky swine who have 17+" monitors and el swizzo 3d cards, what will be the max resolution? Is it going to be worth the trouble going to a larger res - will it help in planning/playing the game? Rocky PS thx Marko for the correction re: _Tigers on the Prowl_... I'm always getting that wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 1, 1999 Share Posted March 1, 1999 Brian, CM will do higher rez without a problem if your card is fine with it. Myself, I am using a 1st gen 3Dfx card which is limited to 640x480 rez. Charles uses an ATI card which allows him to do 1024x768. We both use 17" monitors. The difference between the two is that Charles gets to see more map area than I do. Higher res does provide benefits, but a lower res doesn't penalize either. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted March 2, 1999 Share Posted March 2, 1999 I've got one of those swizzo (great word BTW) 3d cards which allows me up to 1280 x 1024 in 32 bit colour. Will the game support this resolution also ? And thus let me see more of the map. Think SA people, SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted March 2, 1999 Share Posted March 2, 1999 Fionn, Yup, CM will support even your "swizzo" resolution And yes, the higher the rez the more map you will see. However, it might be a real pain to read the interface on a 17" monitor, and forget about it on a 15"! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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