von Lucke Posted December 6, 1999 Share Posted December 6, 1999 Alright, call me a Hollywood propaganda victim, but how about the Final Battle for the Remel Bridge in "Saving Private Ryan"? Seems CM would be perfect for it... And, of course, anything from Operation Goodwood, Villers-Bocage, the Falaise Gap, or the Huertgen Wood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Stone Posted December 6, 1999 Share Posted December 6, 1999 Airborne actions on D-Day !!! Accurate source materials may be the biggest problem here, but I would love to see the chaotic company sized actions associated with the D-Day airborne landings. Something novel and new... Something with the Yanks 101st or 82nd. Ambrose's new book might serve well here. Skip Pegasus Bridge, and do some Brit airborne defensive stands in the few days following June 6.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Compassion Posted December 6, 1999 Share Posted December 6, 1999 JonS said about built up urban environment fighting in CM: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>This might be a bit unwelcome, but I think that large scale city fights would be a bad idea. My reasoning is that it would appear that "things that make sense" won't work in CM cities. For example - no ratholing (blowing holes in the walls of adjacent blds to avoid the streets), no moving along rooftops, no sewers, plus the chunky nature of the terrain tiles. 20m x 20m is a large chunk of ground in a city, and the limited way CM handles gradual destruction of terrain, means (IMHO) square-peg in round-hole time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actually, all that can be modeled abstrtactly as terrain modifiers and movement modifiers in each building "hex." Also, it could be (and is probably more realistic) predetermined to have the kinds of house "features" that you are talking about to be set before a scenario begins. the start of battle attributes of a house can be established (no movement penalty for crossing walls, command and control (and ambush) availablity due to cutting into sewers from basements, etc). In my earlier example of Arnhem, you could have an early Arnhem scenario with the buildings in basically their 'pristine' condition as 1st Airborne dodges into buildings to avoid fire from intital contact with the enemy. Conversely, a scenario might be designed to happen several days into a battle (or weeks in the case of a future east front edition... can't wait for fighting in front of the factories in Stalingrad) with whole blocks converted into fortresses... all this can be done by adjusting movement and defensive values for buildings in the tileset. As for your point about the way that building damage works... You're right. If building damage has not changed since the beta demo, then it would be difficult. Though if a building's "hitpoints" are variable through the editor, then I'm confident that this can be worked around. Clay- [This message has been edited by Compassion (edited 12-06-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWorthing Posted December 6, 1999 Share Posted December 6, 1999 I'm not as knowledgable with WW2 stuff as y'all but i would like to see that battle the british airborne took part in on D-day where they didn't have all their guys and they were supposed to send a signal (w/ a flare) to the gliders that were supposed land right on top of the germans... the mission was to take out some guns... It was in The Longest Day(book) Also, how bout the 442nd, the nisei troops in italy...I read a book by one of them and it was all company sized stuff, at least thats what it sounded like. They also rescued that lost company....that might be a good one... thanks JWorthing (i remember reading a book full of interviews with veterans of a certain company, forgot which, and one of them ended up in a hospital with one of the nisei officers, and he said that those guys were crazy(the nisei) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JonS Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 SS_PanzerLeader & Compassion, I didn't mean to assert that a city fighting scenario couldn't be done. Of course it can be done - there are buildings available in the map editor, so it's simply a matter of bunging a whole buch of them down on a map with a few roads here and there. Voila - insty presto city scenario. What I did say was that it mightn't be such a great idea to do it. Especially from WBRs point of view with regard to writing the 'official' release scenarios. Compassions idea of the paras thrust into Arnhem on the first afternoon of Market Garden is, I think, reasonable since in those meeting-engament type battles the problems I raised weren't issues. But the methodical, house to house reduction of a prepared and defended urban environment required the application of techniques and tactics that I don't CM will be able to replicate. As I said before, you could build a map that had a passing resemblance to the bridge area of Arnhem, and exactly recreate the OoBs of Frost's forces and the German opposition, and it might well be great fun to play (maybe that's enough and this whole discussion is pointless? ), but you couldn't call it a realistic simulation of the fight for the bridge - at least not in the same way you could do a realistic recreation of, say, the battles around the landing zones on Renkum Heath, because that is the type of terran (ie non-urban) in which CM excels. Guys, I'm not trying to knock CM here, but as great as it is, it can't do everything well. Compassion: your point about editing building variables and otherwise fiddling about with the terrain - is that even possible? If it is I've missed a fairly important discussion somewhere! Regards Jon (fixing typos) ------------------ Quo Fas et Vino du Femme [This message has been edited by JonS (edited 12-07-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted December 7, 1999 Share Posted December 7, 1999 JonS, No, editing building variables etc isn't possible in the editor (except insofar as choosing different building types changes characteristics). I have made suggestions for how to improve building variability and quite frankly going FAR beyond what you are considering for CM2 since, in my opinion, building to building warfare in CM2 (Eastern Front) will be far more important than it was here. I think you can expect major improvements in buildings in CM2. It just seems logical. BTW you'd be surprised how well CM can do a cityfight even if it doesn't allow the blowing down of interior walls etc. Some of the scenarios which ship are real cityfights and others involve some major house to house fighting in villages. I think CM 1 does house to house fighting in villages very well but it is in major cities where specialised assault methods might be used that it could do with some improvement. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts