johnnymo Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 //Disclaimer: I don't really know what I'm talking about. //End Disclaimer. Is anyone else out there seeing about 33% or higher hit percentage on first shots? Note that I'm not talking kills, but hits. It seems to me that I (and the enemy) are getting lots of first-shot hits. With the Hellcats, I'm even getting first-shot hits at 800m while on the move. Just wondered if my tactics (which most would probably agree are poor-awful) have anything to do with this, or if something in the game needs a little tweaking. Of course, this could also be a result of small maps. Just as a guesstimate, what would the knowledgeable people out there (Fionn?) estimate would be a first-hit percentage at 800m for a Hellcat? A Tiger? A Stug? As background, I come to CM from SL/ASL, in which tank vs. tank warfare seemed MUCH slower playing out. I can't remember how big the hexes were, so I'm having a hard time translating (sorry, I know I should unlearn, but it's HARD, sooo hard.... ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 On average I'd expect an average crew to hit with 1 shot in 3 at 500 metres under perfect conditions BUT as with all things sometimes you get 1st shot kills and other 8 shots miss E.g. I just had a Tiger miss a stationary Hellcat at about 250 metres :-( Luckily I was reversing back from my position so the Hellcat didn't get to shoot back. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest L Tankersley Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 Hmm, let's see ... ASL's scale is notionally about 40m/hex. So 800m is roughly 20 hexes. At this range the base hit number for the vehicle target type is 7. NRBH, but I think at that range the high-velocity gun would raise it to an 8. The Tiger is a large target, so in ASL a stationary M18 firing at a stationary Tiger at 800m has about an 80% chance of hitting on the first shot. Firing on the move is another matter - about 10% I think. If the M18 has a gyrostabilizer (I don't know if any M18s did or not offhand) it gets better - roughly 33% I think. Are these hit percentages (or those in CM) at all realistic? Beats me. It should be noted that ASL is rife with abstractions, and one of the biggest is turn length. The stated turn length is supposed to be around 2 minutes, but in AFV duels I think it's safe to say that significantly less time is represented. It _would_ be interesting to know what factors affect hit probability in CM and at least roughly how large the effects are. Maybe in the manual? Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnymo Posted November 5, 1999 Author Share Posted November 5, 1999 Thanks Fionn. I'm beginning to think you're an AI daemon that Charles hacked up to answer all the tech questions on this board. To test, what's your response to this statement: "I always lie." Thanks Leland. Looks like you've either got ASL right there, or you're the 'Fionn' of the QRC. BTW, I also wanted to say to Steve and Charles that this is an EXCELLENT game. Unbelievably good and fun and exciting and fun. And good. I finally won as the Americans in Last Defense last night. Coolest part: got a side penetration of the Tiger AND IT KEPT ON GOING!!! It appeared to have done something to the turret tracking mechanism, as the turret was stuck to one side and stayed there as it moved to the south of the battlefield, apparently to help stop my counterattack. I maneuvered my Hellcat around to its rear and got another penetration, which apparently STILL didn't kill the beast, but did force the crew to abandon. [This message has been edited by johnnymo (edited 11-05-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 Johny, sounds like you KO'd the gun and probably killed a crew member too. It is amazing what kind of damage a vehicle can sometimes take and still move. I was *just* looking through a new book I got today and there was a set of pictures of a Jagdpanzer IV with a whole in the upper right front superstruture about 3x1 foot large. I mean, whatever hit it didn't just make a neat hole, that sucker was HUGE! Anyways, the French captured it and were actually driving it! and that is in a basically single compartment vehilce, where as the Tiger is a a little more divided up inside. Steve P.S. Sometimes I think the first shot is too accurate, then I miss 4 times in a row and realize that probability is simply working its magic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 Johnnymo, I'm sorry to hear you admit to always lying. (Better luck next time buddy but my programmer, Charles, has equipped me to deal with such questions.... oops, said to much.. now I must kill you... ALL ) If you read this post please supply me with your location, a recent picture and preferred method of death. Cheers, ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 HEHEHEHEHE Yeah, but Fionn, will there be any bodies left when you are done with us!?! COULDN'T RESIST!!!!! Madmatt out....of his mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Marks Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Fionn, I would like to be shrunk and placed in CC3 as an infantryman. Thank you. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Gees Larry, cruel and unusual punishment eh? ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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