Guest Big Time Software Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Just took a quick check. 876 were produced but combat results were disapointing to some extent. The main problems listed were drag from the weight and guns, and the necessity for the plane to close to within 200m of the target, which is WELL within effective AA MG fire. It doesn't look like any served on the Western Front, but in any case weren't a big part of combat. Compared to the 5300+ Stukas, 6000 110s, 14k JU88s, 16k FW 190s they were simply rare. Production stopped in early 1944 and a quick look through the OBs of all units at the end for the war, it looks like NONE were in service. Cool plane though Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted September 16, 1999 Author Share Posted September 16, 1999 Arggh! Rhet, where did you read that about the Hs 129? We must know! Without some documentation all is lost. HELP! 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 "Cool plane though " Excuse me for dissenting but the reputation of this plane rests largely on the exploits of one pilot:Rudel. By all accounts other pilots hated flying the thing: it was slow, unstable to fly, vulnerable to ground fire and a sitting duck to fighters. The personal accounts of many German ground attack pilots show that what they yearned for was a copy of the Shturmovik which made a real impression on them. My opinion based on that of many of those who flew it, the Stuka G was crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Simon, I was talking about the HE 129 The Stuka, as you say, is WAY overrated. It was something else at the beginning of the war, and was a good tank buster, but ONLY if there was local air superiority. Once that was removed it was a sitting duck. I'd take a FW 190, Thunderbolt, or Shturmovik any day Rudel doing what he did in that flying boxcar makes his record all the more worthy of awe. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhet Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Lee, I was as suprised to read that it was deployed on the Western front as Steve was! I was looking up info for the Eastern Front when I happened upon it. Any way this is a direct quote out of The Encyclopedia of Weapons of WWII. (Steve already knows of this book if he doesn't have it already) <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The production Hs 129B-1 series became operational on the Eastern front, where the type was used most widely, although it served also in North Africa, Italy, and in France after the DDay landings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have a feeling that the author obtained info on some of the ragtag units that were thrown together in defence of the reich. The Germans used many different aircraft for close air support (infact they are almost to numerous to list). The Germans were notorius for trying to design, develope and modify planes so that they could be used to do everything. I have even read stories of them using Fw 189's in the ground attack role. This plane had more glass in it than a window factory for Gods sake! The Hs 129 was a cool plane, but you can always tell when an idea just doesn't pan out. When you resort to "upgrading" the firepower of a tank busting aircraft by stuffing a 75mm cannon into it there is something amiss. Anyway, I don't think it would be worth it to include it in CM but, in the Eastern Front expansion it deserves a place. ------------------ Rhet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted September 16, 1999 Share Posted September 16, 1999 Oops! Sorry Steve. As your post didn't actually give the plane I thought you were still referring to the Stuka. Should have read Lee's post as well. Anyway he is dreaming if he thinks the Germans can realistically expect air support. There are plenty of allied accounts of it: mainly because in was so unusual it was worth commenting on . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted September 16, 1999 Author Share Posted September 16, 1999 Simon: Hehe, I realize it wasn't exactly a common thing for the German ground troops on the western front to have air strikes available to them. But it's nice to have as great a variety of aircraft as practical available to the scenario designers to put together unusual battles. I mean, Jagdtigers weren't exactly common (and something like a Pershing would be super rare) and yet they are in CM because they are cool and because they can be very deadly when used properly. Something like an Hs129 is in the same boat, rare, but a cool and unusual ground attack plane that would be a lot of fun to have make attacks on allied armor. If it was indeed used on the western front, I hope it is included in CM. It would be one of the few (maybe only) dedicated ground attack planes on the German side modeled in CM. And I think it would be really fun to see how it's need to get rather close to it's target to strafe accurately would match up against allied AA fire. If the 129 can bring those 20mm cannon to bear look out, but first it has to get past that hail of AA fire... To me, that sort of head to head battle is really intriguing. The plane can do a lot of damage but has to get in closer than most planes to be highly effective (200 yards, eh Steve? ). Plus, the 129 is armored, so it might well survive that AA fire (well, maybe the first pass or two ). So, if the 129 did serve on the western front I think it would be a neat plane to have in CM. So, there's my pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted September 17, 1999 Author Share Posted September 17, 1999 By the way, Steve, can you give us the latest rundown on what aircraft have been included up to this point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted September 21, 1999 Author Share Posted September 21, 1999 Steve, I guess this thread got lost in the flurry of posts over the past few days. Just wondered if you could give us a quick rundown on all the aircraft variants that have been included up to this point. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 21, 1999 Share Posted September 21, 1999 Aircraft are abstracted in CM. Since air to air combat is not a factor most of the positive and negative aspects of ground attack planes aren't an issue. Plus, you can't actually see the plane so looks aren't important either. The only really important thing is weapon loadouts. I don't have the specifics for the German planes and Charles is a tad bit busy Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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