Pat O
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Posts posted by Pat O
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I will apologize ahead of time for any feel goods that are hurt. I have read some of the stryker bashing and as a plank holder who has actually fought out of them I thought I would comment.
The battlefield evolves first and fore most. With the increased COIN narrative against our current enemy the Stryker Platform works exceptionally well for delivering troops to AO and supporting them on the objective. The Decision to transition to a wheeled platform was based on that urban terrain tracks tear up asphalt, and roads in foreign countries are not exceptionally well built in the first place. same roads are needed for logistical convoys several miles long comprised of escort vehicles and semis. Plus we don't want to piss off the natives or create more hiding spots for IEDs.
The 50 cal and mk-19 on the IFVs provide excellent fire suppression and engagement of deadspace or inside windows of homes built like pil boxes which is extremely common in the middle east. Most Heavy Mech units have to receive bn or company level authorization in many cases to employ anything bigger than a coax.
The Air Sentry hatches on he stryker increase visibility in urban ops much better than any other armored vehicle we have. 50 cal, mk 19s, 240s, and saws have been mounted to increase fire power. We called them hornets nests and the guys tasked to vehicle security had a hell of a time.
The c130 roll off concept was designed to support ranger airfield seizures and give airborne troops some sustainability to hold the airfield. The mgs variant is a major improvement over the old light tank designs and carried a gun that could knock out tanks. Supplement that with the atgm variant and dismounts you can can control a lot against aging soviet equipment and militaries that don't know how to use them. But Real world take afghanistan. We don't border them like Russia does. The Strykers were the heaviest thing we could get a lot of into the country other than MRAPS that were assembled onsite or flown in. A c5 can carry quite a few. I do agree though something with more firepower would be great assembled on site but we have air superiority so its a cost and logistics item. Where we need heavy stuff we have it like Europe.
The actual battle is typically against an infantry concentric force in the urban environment. Something that can navigate the real world problem of traffic and deliver it's can of whoop ass to the battle space to do bad things to bad people was what the stryker was designed for. While Combat mission focuses on fighting a conventional force battle it was widely known during the stryker brigade combat team concepts inception that it was not built for head to head against Mechanized infantry or tanks. This was proven at NTC in 2003 when stryker whoopie lights were blinking everywhere. The dismounts survived and did real damage with javelins but we got our asses kicked and on purpose. At JRTC though fighting the fight we were designed for we decimated the records for securing Shugart Gordon. In 2003-2004 3/2 SBCT deployed to Iraq as the first Experimental Infantry Brigade ever deployed during war. It took over for the 101st Division with a Brigade, and proceeded to destroy Alquaeda's presence in northern Iraq with limited casualties. In addition to securing the city of Mosul it had to pick up BN sized elements and hit Objectives in less than 10 hours in the Sunni Triangle and Southern Iraq from it's northern most city to test it's mobility Concept and did so successfully.
The Powerpack in a stryker (engine and transmission) can be swapped out in 10 minutes. I have driven one home with the transaxle blown and only 3 tires. I have never seen a circle x on a 5988 or had a vehicle non operational while in combat. They are a hell of a vehicle for the fight we fight today. The cold war is over and should we need to fight that type of force we still have the right tools to do so. Stryker units are for the fight we are actually fighting now and do a pretty good job. The dismounts training is primarily in urban but the beauty of a stryker unit is they can be light infantry just like they were in Afghanistan in 2012. Afghanistan is a remote Land locked area that was real hard for the U.S to get heavy armor into .
Sorry for the lecture but reading these posts angered me a little bit on the Stryker bashing and I had the 4th ICV ever made. A bigger gun to fight tanks would be nice but we are Americans and, We fight tanks with tanks, air power, and infantry portable atgms and it has worked pretty good so far. The Bradley is a fine piece of machinery that does what it was designed for very well and we still have them. The stryker equally so. If you play a game with strykers use your infantry thats what is the real combat power anyways and use the stryker to run them where they need to be or shift based on enemy action.
a 30mm stryker would be bada** though.
Edited to add on last comment: For Strykers think Dragoons. Horse Mounted Infantry not Cavalry. designed to move around the battlefield plug gaps, and exploit weaknesses.
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So I am weird. Great. I use the dry board because its right next to the pc I suffered a pretty bad head injury in 2006 so I have to use lists post its and visual aides like crazy to keep up with a plan bigger than a few moves. Plus you can't drop graphics in the game engine. With three kids and my work schedule I don't get to ussually play a single game uninterrupted so It helps me stay on track. Do you guys write down any initial strategy key points?
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Yeah so I double posted this topic Unsure how I did that. This one Is the one that needs to be kept
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Please tell me I am not the only person who does this. I know the game you can pause but I need a real world medium to help plan my missions. The Op orders for scenarios are great but they are more like a WARNO, you have to come up with one for each piece. I think I spend more time planning than I do playing.
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We made multiple suggestions while in the experimental phase at 3/2. The first vehicles we had to begin testing the Interim Brigade Concept were Canadian Lavs with a 25mm. We used those to come up with initial concepts on how to employ infantry out of a LAV and get the BN ready. The Strykers came and we immediately suggested adding a 5th vehicle to each platoon armed with the 25mm. This wasn't possible so we suggested a weapons platform only with a TOW and 3 RWS stations or miniguns. I think even a quad .50 cal was put up by someone which would have been epic in Iraq. Shows you how slow things are to move. The 30mm would be a great tool!
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Not photoshop. It was destroyed by a powerful VBIED that rammed the left side of the tank and blew it off the road (which is where photographer in OP photo is standing). Someone subsequently dragged the hull down the slope away from the turret for some reason. Here is a pic soon after the initial attack taken from the below the road:
A US Abrams also lost its turret to a powerful buried IED in 2006. Two crew members survived.
http://spacecoastdaily.com/2013/05/russ-marek-a-space-coast-hero/
As you can see in this photo notice the flash burns on the paint and general surrounding debris.
Good post.
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Simply Going off the picture it looks to me like this was removed. Notice the complete lack of flash burn on the paint especially the IRAQI flag. The thin steel storage racks on the side of the turret are not bent or mis-shaped. On The ground there is no evidence of something with the weight of a turret slamming into the ground. This is simply a staged photo in my opinion for propaganda purposes. We know what Iraqis do they pop smoke and flee. The equipment is left with rounds in the chamber and a nice note for ISIS a cup of hot chia.
In Regards to the training of Iraqi personnel by U.S Soldiers. You have some good units but if we take a look at what the Iraqi Army has done both times we went up against them I am not surprised in the least bit by their "ditch our uniforms and run" when faced with a determined enemy. The majority of the Iraqi and Afghan army training I have witnessed showed a huge interest in marching and not really fighting. That was driven by the Iraqi or Afghan Leadership and not the U.S or contractor training teams. They can march alright and they marched their butts right back to their homes in many cases. That is not to say that all Iraqi or afghan units are like this but as many a veteran will tell you the corruption and pay for position commanders don't really run a tight ship and are usually the first to cut an run.
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Pat Oglesbee,
Welcome aboard!
(makes mental note to sue panzersaurkrautwerfer for using my greeting expression)
I'm sure you'll find the game both fun and educational. Besides, the battlefield is so lethal you'll be able to play several battles in the time you'd normally be able to play but one of the WW II CMx2 titles! We have a bunch of BTDT and active duty US military types here, as well as those of many other nations, and I shall be most interested to see what you think of CMBS from the perspective of a highly trained warrior and combat veteran.
Unless I have my units crossed up, I believe you may've known my brother, SFC George Kettler. He was, I think, in the 3/2 SBCT, 1/23 H&HQ. Whatever his unit was, I distinctly recall his SBCT was the first ever deployed into combat and was based at Ft. Lewis, Washington. He was a Scout, who'd come up on Bradleys and Hummers, but was then responsible for radios and tactical displays in the Brigade(?) TOC. His duty ride, as opposed to outside the wire on rotating patrol, was a Hummer with a big generator on the back. He barely got out before Stop Loss would've claimed him; he is now retired and in the Sea-Tac area.
Regards,
John Kettler
Seems I do remember a Kettler. I was 1-23 Comanche until I left in 2008. If he monitored things at the Brigade Toc I would not have had much interaction except at some briefings or with the Brigade SMAJ. I was 3/2 SBCT so we were part of the same unit. As to your question regarding my opinion on CMBS, So far I am impressed with the level of micro terrain that can be exploited and as a overall PLT and above C2 workout. Being able to effectively simulate combined arms in a realistic tactics driven environment. The level of detail for the individual soldier equipment down to thermals etc. is impressive. As for an overall strategy game this is the best I have found that isn't hokey. I could give a better review once I have learned the mechanics better and got a lot more games under my belt. I enjoy it and very much so far.
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Thank you to all who provided assistance. Thank you for the laughs on the russian video and the responses for in game. I am brand new to combat mission games but not combat so it's nice to see folks helping out with the greenhorns
Edited my previous post didn't post up when I refreshed the page so I put my question up a second time.
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There are a lot of good tips here. I follow a couple of different techniques, depending on whether or not I know/suspect the building is occupied or not.
First, NEVER use ASSAULT when approaching/entering a building. ASSAULT moves each team of a squad, one at a time, to the waypoint, and then to the next waypoint. If I have a 3-team squad, that's a whole lot of exposure time for the first team.
Instead, split off an ASSAULT TEAM. (It's in the Admin command tab.) They're the guys with the grenades and CQB weapons.
If I know/suspect the building is occupied, I'll nail it with every HE weapon I can, for at least one turn. That will pin and suppress the occupants. If nothing else, the Assault Team and Covering Team will TARGET the building. (Note: if you split a squad into teams, but don't give them movement orders, they'll recombine. To prevent this, give a "false" movement order. QUICK (or anything else) with a PAUSE greater than 1 minute.)
When it's time to assault, I lift the TARGET commands and use TARGET LIGHT. (TARGET uses HE, which causes friendly casualties). I make sure no heavy machineguns use TARGET LIGHT. They will not cause friendly casualties, but they will cause suppression/pins. Not good when you're about to kick down a door. Use TARGET BRIEFLY, say, 30 seconds. Have your assault team PAUSE for 30 seconds. (Or just 15 if they need ~20 seconds or more to get adjacent to building.) The goal is to have the least delay between the lifting of TARGET orders and your assault team getting to the building.
Have the assault team get next to the building. If there are enemy units/exposure down the street, smoke the LOS that way so your assault team is not vulnerable to aimed fire when stacked at the target building.
If the wall they're on has windows, have them TARGET BRIEF into the room. Give them a 15 second PAUSE, then QUICK into the room. It is very important to add a 360 degree covered arc at the end of the QUICK order, encompassing the room plus about 5m. You don't want your guys orienting to the original target spot they had when stacked outside and looking inside. (You could give TARGET BRIEF twice, and then you'd give a 30 second PAUSE. It depends how many grenades you want to use and how much spray and pray you think is appropriate.)
The overwatch element(s) should engage any enemy which try to flee or shift positions within the building. Or, give them a PAUSE (to coincide with their TARGET BRIEF command) and shift positions with a move order, and from that new location use TARGET (or LIGHT, or BRIEF) to suppress other locations.
If your assault team stacks next to windowless wall, that's even better. Use a breach or demo charge and BLAST your way in. That'll pin/suppress most of the enemy. Same rule: 360 target arc at the endpoint with a 5m or so circle beyond the confines.
Now, if you want to get fancy, time a second element to charge in AFTER the first one dominates the room. Have the second element FACE a specific direction, like the room next door. (Check for interior windows and doors.)
If you don't know/suspect an enemy is there, a much more abbreviated approach would be appropriate. Less booms, more small caliber (TARGET LIGHT), more observation time from a distance. Don't try to enter (after the prep fire); just get next to it and look in. The walls will protect your guys from surprises inside. (Of course, they may get machinegunned by enemy units in a different building, but that's situational dependent.)
You WILL lose men in MOUT. No competent enemy will let anything else happen. Since there interior of buildings are abstracted, you should expect enemy to survive your cover fire/grenading when you enter. So, even if you follow the procedures I've written, men will die. This just minimizes it. Hopefully.
The timing is something you'll learn with more play. If you have a "bad" entry, save the game and replay your orders phase until you find a timing which works. That kind of repetition is the best way to learn.
YMMV.
Ken
This type of explanation was exactly what I was looking. For. Thank you very much to everyone for alternatives to implementing mout strategies in this game. Last Question. When Using vehicles to suppress a 2nd floor while assaulting the first. Obviously mk-19 or any other he can cause blue on blue is the same true for .50 cal or 12.7mm. Also can I continue to suppress the 2nd floor as I enter the first floor without a suppression penalty to my entry team? I can experiment but if someone has done the work thought I would ask.
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assault command compared to quick command will only send part of the unit in at a time. Generally it is better to use the quick command and do exactly what has been suggested here.
The more bodies you get in their quickly, the faster you spot the suppressed enemy and kill them.
The one thing you do not want to do is run just a few men in and not spot them in time and see a enemy soldier recover enough to blast your men as you are looking for him.
Play enough and it will happen, just no way to make it perfect, there is always a risk.
I beleive this is what has been occuring. Or they enter to slowly and enemy recovers.
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I usually level the building if possible, if not supress as much as possible move an assault team within 30M perferabily behind the building, have them target briefly for 15-30 second with a 15-30 second pause. this will allow then to throw grenades and further supress. after the pause have them move quick into the first floor with a target briefly to the next floor above. also if possible go to the blindside of a building and blow the side out with a satchel. DO NOT hunt the assault needs to be quick and violent. hunt will only get your guys killed in the open. do not rely on your men spoting shoot first ask questions later. if you get a possible contact light em up you know theyre enemy.
thanks. I will experiment with this. So let me clarify the assault order or move quickly/fast while targeting?
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Ok. So steep learning curve. I am well versed in urban combat however not in the mechanics of it in this game. I suppress I smoke and assualt. My guys get hammered once inside every time. I tried using the hunt command but they keep stopping in the roads. You veterans at this how do you best utilize the game commands to get positive results. If there is any resources on this please link. Again I have the tactics of it down but the way I am employing them ingame doesn't seem to be having positive results. thanks in advance.
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Functionality, UI and gameplay features cannot be modded in Combat Mission, cosmetics can though.
Here is Kiemes fantastic vehicle skin, buildings, and uniform mods.
http://community.battlefront.com/topic/117795-kiemes-modding-corner/page-28
Scroll down towards the bottom of that page and you will find the master list.
Waclaws great sound mod- http://community.battlefront.com/topic/118413-hqs-22-black-sea-shock-force-afghanistan-final/
Thank you for the quick reply. I am sure that has to do with the EULA in regards to functionality.
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My experience with ARMA has also taught me often their are other websites that specialize in mods for a game other than just the repository any Suggestions on those are welcome. Lastly I am interested in platoon sized infantry scenarios if anyone has some suggestions on those. Thanks in advance.
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Hello,
I am new to the battlefront community. I was wondering if anyone could suggest a mod list that improves gameplay. Specifically I am interested in things that improve functionality and not just cosmetic. I used to play the ARMA series and the mod world their can be overwhelming. Any suggestions for UI, Functionality, or other improvements would be great.
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Thanks a lot for the info.
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Thank you guys for the very detailed background on the other titles. I'm a battlefront customer for sure after this game and plan to try my hand at the other titles in the future
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Drawing lines or text on 3d map would work best but if that's not possible the tactical map would suffice. The tactical map could be improved a bit I feel as well. The game is awesome and I love it as is so hope no one feels I'm bashing this.
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I do like modern because I know the equipment but I am interested in the Ww2 ones the company makes as well. So far impressed with cmbs are the rest as good
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Correction 2 rpk or pkm positions one near a wall and buildings and another just past a an orchard with a long axis of the cp.
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I completed the scenario August morning with no casualties and 14 minutes left on the clock. I exited all troops and now the clock keeps ticking. Does it require the full time to met or is the victory conditions bugged. I destroyed 1 ags 30 pos, Observer Pos, PKM or RPK cant Remember and a recon element in the buildings near cp. I touched all green zone objectives and exited troops. Are scenarios based on a timer? or do they have ObJective complete options? Small bug dont need an acheivement to know I kicked ass and brought the guys home but might need some dev TLC if this is a issue in numerous scenarios.
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I would like to offer a suggestion to battlefront that could improve the overall quality of the game and strategy.
Adding the ability to make map graphics. Explained: The op order screen does a great job of following the standard op order format. A feature that allows either a MGRS map to add graphics for phase lines or that allows you to place notes on the 3d map itself would greatly improve the planning process either in setup phase or in actual play. Players that prefer RT over wego should also be able to do this during a game pause. I love turn based but RT adds an element of realism I prefer for responding to changing battlefield conditions in smaller scenarios. I am new to the CM series of games so if this is possible I do apologize.. I read nothing in the supplied manual that eluded to this ability. I have resorted to hand drawn map sketches on paper which add a lot of realism in my opinion but are subject to the users drawing ability which was not my strong suit. A few simple graphics or an improved tactical map would help out a great deal. I think it is an excellent game and far superior to most strategy games out there. I think an addition such as this would only improve the experience. Besides the France based developers for wargame have included this and I know battle front can put them to shame. Any who agree with me please post on this thread. If you dont I would love to hear your reasons. Again I think this game is excellent and far more mature than any of the the strategy games that are available now. That being said as an Infantryman I was always taught to improve my position any chance I had.
Army wants more lethality for Strykers
in Combat Mission Black Sea
Posted
So I have been away with children's birthdays and work and thought I would return to this good conversation and debate. I enjoy all comments and suggestions that are professionally based on experience and education rather than opinion or articles from soldier of fortune. In my continued defense of The Stryker platform being a exceptional vehicle for the fight we fight today as well as filling the operational void for Light armored transport. I am glad to know that hostile brevity gave way to agreeing with my original opinion. Case in point. Multiple Quotes Follow:
I am a combat wounded vet so hostile brevity is the medium I am used to, comfortable, and operate in. Sorry had to get a dig in Panzer afterall we are all soldiers here whether real peacetime or conceptually.
You have obviously never operated out of MRAPS in a combat setting for any lengthy period of time as the case in Afghanistan and one many have voiced concern regarding. The MRAP is great stop gap measure for JSS and other training or joint teams operating within 5 klicks of a fob. The most common holds 5 with a gunner and is a real pain to employ at out of if it even has any that fit in the storage racks. SMAW Ds and laws unless strapped to pack are in accesible. I speak from first hand experience as well as merc-ing out of a toyata Hilux which faired better in offroad than both the stryker or MRAP the kukri hanging on my wall was hand made out of the leaf springs of mine by my ghurkas. Stryker's suspension and tire width was not optimally configured for slat armor (again a stop gap measure) as opposed to the ERA modules included in cmbs that are not yet approved for or installed on Stryker variants.The slat armor did well enough again experience (3 hits from rpg 1 caught in the gaps unexploded and two detonating 18 inches off the armor during an engagement) no casualties in our vic except permenant hearing loss.With Big Army decided to no focus as much R&D to finish in a timely manner or produce ERA. Strykers have yet to be deployed with the original concept of ERA due most likely to budget constraints etc.
The Styrker was designed exactly as you said to be the middle weight flex option and operate as a follow on force to sustain controlled territory in addition to move forces efficiently to the front to serve as light infantry, and around the battle space.. This is nothing new as we have done this since WWII and always looked for the best fit in sustainability and # of personnel. Forces that can transport ground troops efficiently and sustain themselves on the battlefield are paramount in overall strategic success. SBCT were not designed for frontline spearhead duty as identified in every manual regarding their employment since inception. Referenced SBCT rifle platoon and squad and above on up to Battalion level Fm's within the first ten pages or so.
The argument here that I gather is that they are not effective in a fight they weren't designed for or rather to operate in alone without the support of or in support of heavy mech forces. however in my own CMBS game play I have found that I can destroy BTR 82s armed with 30mm efficiently and at the same rate they seem to have to destroy strykers. BMPS is out of the question just based on physics. But the MGS variant does well against BMPs and marginally against modern soviet tanks without rear or flank shots. This is expected and again what it was designed for.
No Wheeled tank destroyer is as good as a tank. They are meant to support tanks and or hold the line until they arrive.
Again how do you get them and sustain them from their racks to the operational area. If NK came over the border the scout platoon at the bridge is dead in 30 minutes as is the other supplementary D.I.P outfights to buy time to get forces in position to respond.
Cav Tanks are you referencing Sheridans or M60 Starships? Aging soviet equipment vs aging Nato. 3rd world being the key identifier in this comment so Air Superiority is inferred and artillery does a lot to shake up, poorly trained and non fanatical armor crews just click green on your next quick battle. 105 mm was the original gun for Abrams dontchaknow. The sheer retro fit cost for mothballed items would stagger you. Plus they were phased out long before the Stryker was even a concept
C3k. I appreciate and agree with your comment. optics and social media is the battlefield in COIN. In fact it is the most important one considering we also have to fight the optics at home. But to say it is not fighting is inaccurate. I will raise you the 9 purple hearts accrued in my squad alone during one deployment in 2006-2007. So it can get you just as dead. Not having to call someone or ask permission to put a lot of hate and discontent in that window is key. I'll take what i can use right now over what i can go get any day.
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SBCT is leg infantry with taxi cabs. The training and entire concept supports this statement. Styrkers take us close then we infill on foot and call them up as we need them if we even do.
Do you have any suggestions on modern effective light tanks soviet or NATO, because in my research nearly everyone except the nations with predominately jungle environments have ditched light tank concepts.I have not seen a light tank design floating around anywhere so what and how soon would you suggest implementing this and with what resources.Currently Bradleys and abbrams are maintained and rotated through at Graffenwhoer and Lithuania. While I most whole heartedly aggree that staged and maintained is not as good as active i imagine with recent events that may shift with 2cr demanding more firepower and a return to the more heavy mech mtow over pure SBCT makeup. .
I am picking on you a bit panzer and want to express that I do respect your opinion and overwhelming positive contribution to this community in my limited time combing over this entire forum. I hope you can understand no self respecting Stryker Infantryman can take a bashing without speaking up especially one from the inception development and execution phase. We suggested multiple improvements the best of which is getting some traction after almost ten years.
So I will conclude with this which brings up great points as expressed in not so technical terms by my original post. THE SBCT is not designed to fight armor it is a taxi. It prvides light infantry the mobility it needs to infil and extract into key terrain with field sustainability. Plus if we knew we were going up against armor you can bet your bottom dollar that more than 4 javaelins would be on that stryker. In fact they would fill the hell hole and be strapped down to the top. cached at fall back positions etc.
The Battlefield is an ever evolving environment and heavy armor and mech units are in no danger of being replaced since we are having to counter an equally-semi equally technological and industrial threat that has blossomed, during our current pre-occupation with goatherders. But I will point out the fact those goat herders sent the soviets home packing when they moved in all their awesome light armor and apc's bristling with weaponry that now sits mangled in the field of dreams outside kandahar and kabul. Infantry can do a lot against Russian equipment even using russian equipment who combat every threat by engineering "the lets get by with 1960s era weaponry and fill every role mentality."
Thank you for the great conversation and I look forward to many more and hearing everyone's POV and comments.