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Regardless of bolt design the chamber heat, heat sink and welding point remains. Especially on a roller locker mechanism like the mg42 or g3. I was not trying to ridicule but rather make a point, since a very common sense idea, namely, that guys who panic under extreme duress are not likely to follow protocol, was being attacked. This is a underpinning of the entire CM game. I believe he said that they never melted but were always swapped out before that point. Bs. Guys panicked. Barrels melted. Especially with a rapid rof mg like the mg42. Happened and to say it didn't or couldn't is blatant disregard for realism. I never said that DESIGN intentions were to let it melt. Obviously not. But in a human wave attack, maybe you just forget, hmm? It happened in Korea to the US gunners too. There is no tactical advantage and you asking that question just illustrates you don't understand my point.

I am not saying it is. It is an indicator of heat, however. After what, 50rds?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwW31u6wYvE Note the barrel smoking at the end.

For a barrel, yes

You should have seen them going after the shoes.... but it reminded more of "the walking dead" than "ostfront".

Barrel heat is cumulative and increases much faster from firing than the cooling from airflow can reduce it. That's why water cooled mgs like the vickers were designed. Runaway mode/slamfires would more likely occur from auto-cookoff of the round by the chamber heat. Since this is the area of the mechanism that has the most metal around it, and thus the most heat sinking, it would occur after the thinner portion of the barrel had already begun to sag (melting).

note that the cyclic rate of fire on the m60 is 500 to 650 rds/min

They don't lose the ability to withstand pressures and kaboom, but they will droop under their own weight and ultimately jam from the bolt welding to the face of the chamber.

I thought the point was quite clearly made, but let me spell it out for you. If the gunner panics, with a 1400rpm fire rate, the mg42 will very easily melt the barrel from over firing. As will any air cooled MG. "IRL", as you say, barrels DO melt. Just not from two or three 10 round bursts.

Oh, so you've seen a human wave attack before, have you?

So says you. Design intentions are one thing, reality another.

My appologies. My hotmail account was spam filtering like a dog eats bacon. Emails replied to, gents.

This is true. But utterly meaningless in the discussion at hand... Unless you aren't talking about unsuppressed HMG units, that cannot hit targets at 600m with a fully automatic weapon, with magnified optics, over many minutes. Because I think that's the topic here... Regarding mortars, I respectfully disagree about the HE round lethality. Plunging fire in general is highly effective, and plunging HE is deadly. Although casualties 100m away from a 8.1cm mortar round are a bit rediculous. I further disagree with you on the casualty rate of breakthrough operations. A look at the surviving German units' strength 3/4 of the way through Kursk will give you an idea of what I mean... And back to the HMG discussion..........

I think the increased casualty rate in CMx2 is more realistic. I particularly like the increased effectiveness of all kinds of HE, especially plunging fire HE (mortars, arty). You guys should know that arty was the main killer in WWI and II... So yes, I agree that we see a lot of carnage. But that is also because we don't really care about survival of the pixelmen except in what they can accomplish for this limited scenario. I wonder what the pixelmen think of us, their overlords. Perhaps they are upset that we are incompetent. And we subconsciously know this and want an environment that is less lethal to cover our mistakes. That said, HMGs are the real key to infantry defense against infantry attacks. They NEED to be effective for a real simulation of combined arms battle... All the battles that had matched forces were bloody as hell. El Alamein, Kursk, Stalingrad, Bulge, Market Garden... etc. If we are playing with matched forces, and the game simulates reality as it should, then a high casuality rate is to be expected. I would expect an HMG that ambushes a squad of guys in the open at less than 300m to cut them all down within a few minutes... at most. At 600m, I would expect 50% casualties within a few minutes, and immediate suppression/pinning. Unless there was cover nearby, those guys were up $### creek without a paddle. Thus, recon's (also known as "hey you newguy") importance. This opinion is based on my personal firing of full-caliber weapons, as well as experiences observing random individuals firing these weapons, at man sized (and smaller) targets at these ranges. Hits are very easy even with no magnification and over iron sights.

And your point is?

you guys know its @hotmail.com, right... haven't recevied mails of yet.

great, shoot me an email

Hey, I like your update. And I agree with you. MGs are the reason why combined arms were invented... lets not forget Verdun, etc... IF WHAT YOU SAY IS TRUE, I would gladly see an increase in suppression and/or killing power from MGs in general. (BARs etc Dont Count ) If that comes from a ROF increase (as I suspect it should) then great. If it comes from an accuracy increase (as I suspect it also should) then also great. If it comes from pixelamis realizing that many many bullets just went by their helmet, and they crap their pants and hit the dirt, then I am also happy. See how many easy solutions there are?

I agree Killkess, when that sucker is glowing orange, time to change it. That's why there was an issued asbestos mitt to go with the buzzsaw. Hm. Yessir, 20 rounds a minute, 2 bursts. Yup, I can fire no more... (don't look at the casings sir) From an allied soldier: "I remember my first reaction, was one of amazement at the crushing fire power of those guns. It seemed to me that the German soldier seldom used his rifle. He was a carrier of boxes of light machine-gun ammunition of which they seemed to have an endless supply!"

For the Germans and their mauser 98Ks, it really don't matter much. Those darn things get maybe one shot off per minute per rifle. It is frustrating as a German player to see the keynote weapon of their infantry, really the focal point of the entire squad and sometimes company (for HMGs) get neutered so much... I agree with you womble and would love to see rectumfication. However, I am also a realist and the developers/coders of this game are very, very keen on their time spent vs. benefit gained.......

To the first paragraph. Well, yes... of course. To the second paragraph. It will also make it hit more things, since more bullets are going out. I am just saying, what is more likely to happen? The coders rewrite behaviour that is likely put into all sorts of small arms fire, and possibly whack out all sorts of previously written scenarios, etc. Or that they simply adjust the firing rate up for one type of unit. I can honestly see a HMG spraying an area rather than pinpoint targets. So the mal-aiming is not so bothersome to me.... PROVIDED that the damn gun actually uses its 2k plus rounds of ammo in something like a reasonable rate of fire. I mean, these things had quick-changeable barrels so that WHEN A BARREL MELTED FROM FIRING, they could change it quickly and get the gun back in action... JUST SAYIN....

Yessir, don't tell me that thing is only going to fire 2 ten round bursts a minute.

What about game balance guys. If the German doctrine was to have a belt fed weapon or two in every squad (from what I understand not something the Amis, Ivan, or Tommy did), and you turned up the lethality of all mgs, it would really favor the Germans versus the other nationalities. Don't you think that's the issue at stake? And not purely the hmgs (assuming the engine treats both the light mg and heavy mg similarly). Now if you just boosted the output of fire from a hmg rather than the modeling of its behavior I'd say you were onto something. As it stands they fire only a little faster than the light bipod variants. Heck the vehicle mgs are firing as fast, and those guys have a whole crapload more to do than six guys with one gun, however über sticky that tripod elevation wheel was, or how many schnapps shots Fritz had earlier that morning...

I have dropbox/h2hh set up and working (finally). Have commonwealth. Looking for an allied opponent. Email me at panzerkampfwagon at hotmail, thanks gents and tommies.

Medium sized. I do have one all set up, and use h2hh.