[Are there any new titles planned in the series?]

I posted this on the 1C forums but I see more traffic here.

I find that statement really funny!! There's hardly any activity on the ToW forums!

The reason I am asking is because I have come to really enjoy the series. I think even a modern setting would be great. I realize it will be competing with the Combat Mission series (which I also own) but there are certain advantages to this series such as: being able to move individual soldiers; formations; stances; choosing your weapons both personnel and vehicle; and many others. Please 1C, don't let this series become extinct. I also play Men of War. But by far this is the closest thing to a combat sim. I would love to see what this series could do with modern weapons.

Funny, I actually loathed the micromanagement. I was an infantryman in the '90s and you never had to micromanage a real soldier. Playing Tow2 felt like a click-fest of micromanagement. I had to constantly pause the action so that I could tell some sergeant to tie his shoe laces!!

Great company 1C! Keep up the good work and I'll keeping doling out the green.

Based on my headaches with Tow2: Kursk (documented mainly at http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=102066 and http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=102067) I don't think I'll be buying any other 1C games. I was really looking forward to Korea but I really don't want the technical aggravation -- never mind gameplay issues!

It's a shame, really...I was so looking forward to putting down the kind of cash I used to do for the Close Combat series....

[So Does Anyone Actually Play This Game??]

i play it very often. I love tow. its the best sim

I'm still trying to learn to play it! The manual doesn't actually explain much...I never got the sense of how everything fits in together, all the capabilities in this game. The one lone tutorial game is even worse at helping newbies understand.

[So Does Anyone Actually Play This Game??]

I like them all for what they are. More like simulators of sorts. They have two editors, lots of content. And some lucky people (certainly not me) got the whole darn package of them for like $12 during a few of the Steam and GG sales. So not too much to complain about, in general, anyways.

I paid full price for every Close Combat game released and really enjoyed them.

I paid $20 for this one and it's been a surprisingly mixed experience, though I'm still happy enough for my purchase.

[So Does Anyone Actually Play This Game??]

Just curious, as there's pretty much no activity in this forum.

I was a little disappointed to find that there's practically nothing in the way of training missions (except for that one grossly simplified [and still incomplete, for all that] tutorial which forms the demo), and a little disappointed to find that things can degenerate into an RTS click-fest if one doesn't constantly pause and issue orders then (assuming I can; not entirely sure of this yet as I only just thought of such a style of playing [in the manner of Battlefront's "WeGo" method])....

And is it just me or do soldiers have to be micromanaged here? I'm assuming standard infantry tactics should work but for some reason I've had whole squads wiped out without knowing why -- and in this respect I wish it was more Close Combat-like, when I'd know through audio cues ("Die Einheit ist verloren!") that a unit was lost (ToW2 Kursk's "smart pause" feature requires one to fiddle with some code, simple as it is, if every casualty isn't going to interrupt the game)....

[Installation WTFs]

You can thank Microsoft for some of the complexity of installing some programs.

I've been hearing tech support folks claim that since Windows 95 days but the more I hear it the less inclined I am to believe that. Not to get into an argument because I do believe y'all are acting in good faith, more than less, but knowing how Microsoft is I wonder why it wouldn't be possible to still find some way of providing a hassle-free experience for your users. I understand this title was written before Windows 7 but something about how round-about everything is makes me think a decision was made to just let the customer deal with things....

Anyway:

1. The installer installs UPDATES to DirectX 9.0c. This does NOT affect your files/compatibility for DirectX 10/11. They are different files. TOW 2 Kursk 1943 uses DirectX 9.0c and not later DirectX versions.

Understood; thanks for the explanation. Would have thought that later versions are backwards compatible and overwrite previous versions, but I guess not.

2. I'm not sure about any restarts.

Would it be possible for you to install your own game and check this out? I'm not seeing things. The installation "wizard" definitely stated something about restarting....

It's possible that after installing the DirectX update that the game may want a restart to be able to load the appropriate DirectX files, but I'm not sure.

Problem is, it never restarts despite claiming that it needs to!

3. Unfortunately some of the eLicense software is a bit dated. There is an eLicense control panel that rarely works with most installations. It was actually more geared towards Windows 98/Me and Windows 2000 (possibly). It rarely works in most current Windows versions. This is not really a huge problem since you can activate and unlicense games using shortcuts, but it does stuff that control panel in there, which is useless for a vast majority of users.

So...I've got this eLicense software on my machine that's so outdated I can't even access it. Right. All in the name of copy protection.

I don't know, Battlefront, but this sounds like the TSA approach to "security," frisking wheelchair-bound grannies at the airport for explosives...how about not treating your customers like thieves, guilty until proven innocent?? Surely you know that only honest paying customers are the only ones inconvenienced by all this. Has copy protection ever stopped piracy??

4. The 'autoupdater' is 1C Company's invention to update the games when a patch has been released. The patches come from 1C's servers (and not us). As you figured the 'UAC' will cause issues with it. Another way around this without disabling the UAC is to launch the game by right-clicking on the shortcut and selecting "Run as administrator" from the popup menu. This will give the game administrative rights to write in the '\Program Files' directory and some other things. With the Theatre of War series we highly recommend the "Run as administrator" since it is necessary for the game to record progress in campaigns, etc. Turning off UAC basically does the same thing.

Okay -- please put this requirement on the download screen!

5. The game can be uninstalled from the 'Programs and Features' control panel. You should see a 'Theatre of War 2 Kursk 1943 (Remove Only)' listing to uninstall the game. Before doing that, remember to UNLICENSE the game first to preserve your activation. Otherwise that can disappear, especially if you make certain hardware or operating system changes to your computer. The unlicensing shortcut is in the Start Menu group for TOW 2 Kursk, in the 'Licensing' subfolder.

IOW, the readme file is misleading. But if I didn't read it, I'd have been advised to read readme files....

Anyway, please just put this information on the download page. Is that really so hard to do?? List all the steps necessary -- run as admin, uninstall from Windows, etc.

Thanks.

[Other Issues]

I'm not sure why UAC/"Run as administrator" is not covered in the manual, but it is something that we've dealt with here on the forums since Windows Vista came out.

The Theatre of War series really requires either disabling UAC or running the installers and games by right-clicking on the executable/shortcut and selecting "Run as administrator" from the popup menu. The "Run as administrator" option replaces the need to disable the UAC. Without doing one or the other the games (in this entire series) has issues with campaign saves and the redirect functionality known as 'VirtualStore'. While a number of other games can work with VirtualStore (it just makes getting to the files a bit harder if you're manually moving them around), the Theatre of War series just doesn't seem to work very well with it.

Hi, thanks for the response, first off. It's as timely and about as comprehensive as I recall from the BTS days, and I really am grateful for all assistance despite my irritability.

Having said that, wouldn't it make sense to note all that on the download screen, the page where the customer downloads the game? IIRC, that page simply states to install the game, activate it, and play -- which is really what end-users should expect in the 21st Century. Not being snarky there, honestly; I just feel like it's the kind of "nerd oversight" that should have been left behind with the Y2K bug! Instead, I've got to try to piece together what's going on and what to do about it -- with, at least, your kind assistance, thankfully. But still.

I'm not sure why the Autoupdater would download a patch you already have. The game has been updated to 1.3.1, correct ?

How do I check this? Is it noted on the title/splash screen somewhere??

Usually if the game has been updated, then when you click 'Update' it should come back pretty quickly with 'no update available' or something to that effect.

Nope, as soon as I start the game, I get the Autoupdate screen first, popping up on my Win7 desktop.

This is the way 1C decided to run things, so run the Autoupdater first (and always) and then getting to the game is the way that they decided the game should run. I suggest running the Autoupdater with the "Run as administrator" right-click.

Not sure what you mean by "running the Autoupdater" -- it's run automatically! Do you mean I should right-click the ToW2 Kursk .exe file??

If you believe that you have downloaded the update file already, then you can run that installer outside of TOW 2 Kursk. The file will be located (if you either turned off UAC or used "Run as administrator") at the default directory of:

'\Program Files\Battlefront\1C Company\Theatre of War 2 Kursk 1943\users\patches'

Yes, this I did know, which is why I know that those patches are already present, have already been downloaded ad infinitum. Are you telling me to click on each one of those two patch files, which are .exe files IIRC (can't see now; at "work," not home! )??

Remember to launch this patch by right-clicking and selecting "Run as administrator".

You can also manually download the 1.2.4 update from this link:

http://www.1cpublishing.eu/tow2/TOW_Kursk_Patch_1.2.4_EN_BattleFront.exe

and here are some links to the 1.3.1 patch (you will need to install 1.2.4 FIRST, BEFORE installing 1.3.1):

Battlefront links to TOW 2 Kursk 1943 1.3.1 patch

Um, wait, so you mean the correct way to do things is to 1) download the game and install it, and then 2) download the patches manually (outside of Autoupdater) and install them???

Again, such instructions should be on that download page, which currently makes things seem like a one-step install. I prefer purchasing software on physical media, but the few times I've downloaded games (Crayon Physics Deluxe, And Yet It Moves, and Osmos) I've gotten the absolute latest versions in one download. If this can't be the case for some odd reason, then at least the download screen itself should have instructions on all the steps required after the initial download.

Regarding music, is the 'Music' slider in the 'Sound' panel set to something other than its default minimum (which will produce no sound) ?

No, that slider doesn't slide at all, as if it's "grayed out," just something unavailable.

What format are your sound files in ?

.mp3 -- is that all right? The manual, of course, makes no mention of which formats are acceptable.

You need to have 'DirectShow' codecs in order to play the music files in this folder.

Umm...that sounds like something which comes with DirectX. I have DirectX 11. Shouldn't it come with DirectShow already?

You may want to download and install a codec pack like:

K-Lite Codec Pack (Full)

Other codec installers should also work, but they will need to provide the DirectShow codecs for your particular audio files.

Do I really need this if I have DirectX 11 already??

[Other Issues]

UPDATE: Regarding Issue 2, the music, it turns out that any music will be self-supplied -- that is, the user sticks his (or her?) own music files into the appropriate folder(s), as detailed in the manual.

Now, however, a new issue has cropped up: 5. Why does the Autoupdater keep downloading the same updates everytime I run the game??? And why do I have to hit "Play" twice to play????

Battlefront/1C/Anybody: a) the music's not working despite me depositing files in "<Game folder>\Music\Game" as instructed on page 12; the Autoupdate pops up every time I fire up the game, and I have to hit "Play" twice; c) if I hit "Update" it simply downloads patches I already; d) while reinstalling these patches some file can't be found or installed or something and the only way to move forward is to ignore....

These are the issues I have from half a day of playing with the full version.

[Other Issues]

All right, for the benefit of some other benighted soul who's gonna be taken in in future with this Slavic beauty of a wargame:

Issue Nrs. 1, 3, and 4 had to do with the game not installing properly due to Windows 7's User Account Controls. It really would have been nice, if not actually logical, for Battlefront/1C/God to have notified customers of this little monkey wrench!

With the UAC totally disabled, the game could grab the necessary patches off the internet, which made it finally work. Why Battlefront/1C/God doesn't/don't simply stitch it together for the benefit of their customers is beyond me. I thought the point of downloading (for a customer, anyway) wasn't simply to play right away but to also get the latest version, with all the necessary patches! Okay, so it's more work to stitch it together instead of letting the customer deal with it...but could you at least meet me halfway and give me a clue?? Like instructions about updating, blah blah blah, instead of making it seem like I just download the thing and activate and play like with a normal company???

By Rommel's trousers, the more things change, the more they stay the same...felt like MS-DOS days again...the damned Auto Updater (nothing, of course, about an auto-updater anywhere, never mind Windows UAC needing to be disabled first before the absolutely necessary updates will get fetched) took almost as long to download two patches as it took to download the game originally, only to run through another installtion procedure which, of course, has another hiccup in telling me some file (autoupdate.exe, IIRC) couldn't be installed/found/whatever, did I want to abort, retry, or ignore so of course I tried every option and of course it was "ignore" that worked....

Here's hoping that I don't get any more issues, in-game or with my system being changed maybe -- and that the next customer can make heads and tails of the almost circular installation processes -- plural!

UPDATE: Regarding Issue 2, the music, it turns out that any music will be self-supplied -- that is, the user sticks his (or her?) own music files into the appropriate folder(s), as detailed in the manual.

Now, however, a new issue has cropped up: 5. Why does the Autoupdater keep downloading the same updates everytime I run the game??? And why do I have to hit "Play" twice to play????

[Installation WTFs]

Okay...

At least for Nr. 4, it has to do with the User Account Control setting in Windows 7.

Thanks for the heads-up, guys! Not.

[Other Issues]

1. I cannot save a game. I get kicked out back to Windows (7, 64-bit), with the game not running at all (according to Task Manager).

2. Where's the music?? There's a setting for music volume but you can't toggle it -- and there isn't, actually, any music, apparently.

3. The keyboard hotkey defaults from the demo are not present initially in my full (paid-for) version; to "wake them up" I gotta hit the Default button first!

4. And on top of it all, my manual's missing! It's actually the reason why I got this game now instead of playing around with the demo some more, as the tutorial game barely teaches anything!!

FWIW, I uninstalled the Kursk demo before installing the full version. I'm running a 2nd-Gen iCore 7 overclocked with on-board RealTek audio and 2GB Radeon 6950. I'd reinstall it but can't find the program's own uninstall option and amn't sure the system uninstall (Win7's) is "safe"....

[Installation WTFs]

Seriously, WTF is up with software installation these days??? It's like a bunch of stuff happens and the casual everyday lay-user has no idea what or why....

1. This thing reports itself as installing DirectX 9.0c instead of merely checking for it...I had to double-check to make sure I was still at version 11, the latest!

2. What is this eLicense thinggy?? Why does Kursk installation tell me that it needs a restart in order to finish installation and asks whether I want to restart now but then doesn't restart when I agree?? Why does the game apparently work regardless -- or is it actually working properly without this restart???

3. Why did Kursk installation tell me to check my eLicense in Control Panel, only I can't 'cause Win7 64-bit states that no file is associated, blah blah blah??? I just got my machine and would love to for once keep it "clean"...I don't like it when there's stuff on there that I can't access!

4. How come every time I start up Kursk I get the Autoupdater which tells me to check for updates, only to give me an "acess to path denied" error?? It's enough to make me want an Xbox or Playstation....

5. How come there's no uninstall option, like the readme.rtf states?

Thanks for all advice.

[All Right, Who's Peng??]

So any of you gents gonna 'fess up about this, or do I have to get my g/f involved??

[Two Frenchmen Remember]

Sort of like taking the film "Cross of Iron" and making it a first person game and having to make decisions based upon your situation, environment, etc. Life as Sgt Steiner.

That was the first war movie I ever liked! My father used to watch war movies, action stuff, and I was always like, ewww, it's so gross, and so boring (but no, I'm not gay okay LOL), but Cross of Iron somehow touched me and made me find all this stuff more interesting.

Seriously, I'm really thinking Battlefront (or whoever) would get a Nobel Prize for such a game. It'd be like the Ultima IV of our day!

[Can We Get a Combat Mission in Asia, Ever?]

I guess everyone has a different "Holy Grail"; i'm just waiting for CM: East Front to come. Far East, North Africa, and the Western Front are all just ancillary theaters IMO.

I also like to see the Mediterranean stuff. Seriously, panzers and GIs, panzers and GIs...it's getting to be like Army chow!

[Can We Get a Combat Mission in Asia, Ever?]

That's still not quite the same. You don't have a multitude of tank divisions slugging it out in Manchuria, neither in Burma or China nor in hypothetical Australian invasion. These are in that sense 'poor' theaters compared to NWE or East Front where you get lots of very intense combined arms action in very short time.

CM: Afghanistan was mostly made by a Russian studio, Snowball. I could envision some PTO afficianados forming their own joint and negotiating a deal with BFC for a 3rd party game. With the right people even a Chinese civil war game could be done.

Well, then, what a great opportunity to make a different kind of wargame, then -- the kind I'd envisioned in my other post about the two Frenchmen -- since there aren't gazillions of AFVs and planes involved! Finally, wargaming that's personal, and not "simply" number-crunching physics and graphics....

If I ever win the Powerball/etc. (or secure some multi-million dollar movies deals for my romance and political thriller fiction [yeah, really]) y'all will see a PTO Combat Mission!

[Two Frenchmen Remember]

The closest game I've found to the role playing experience your looking for is in the Brothers in Arms series from Gearbox Software. Its an FPS but it has some of the elements that you mentioned in your post. Btw the first 2 games in the series i would recommend "Road to Hill 30" & "Earned in Blood" but the 3rd game "Hells Highway" is a dud.

Ach, dislike FPS (gives me a serious headache after a few hours -- and no, I can't play them for less than a few hours!)...thanks for the recommendations, though! I'll still check 'em out.

[Two Frenchmen Remember]

Oh, come on.......a few dragons would add a whole new aspect to the game. Maybe Combat Mission Skyrim.

Hey, how about one of your soldiers getting drunk and hallucinating over dragons over something.

Damn, so looking forward to 2025. I think wargames will be just like what I'm envisioning by then! Not even sure they'll call it a "game" anymore....

[Can We Get a Combat Mission in Asia, Ever?]

@LongLeftFlank: Yeah, I'd go for modding, but is it as cumbersome as it ever was back in the original CM days? :confused:

@Vanir Ausf B: Oh, okay, now that you mention it, yeah, I think that was the ultimate reason given back then, too!

[Can We Get a Combat Mission in Asia, Ever?]

CM tends to be at its best in combined arms operations, and some theaters just are richer in that area than others. You get more of that in two months in Normandy or Bagration than in the entire Pacific War together.

They can always go the what-if route, you know (Australian invasion, etc.). Also, that Soviet-Japanese engagement in Mongolia could serve for combined arms purposes (okay, no sexy hardware, but still...aren't grognards actually interested in the "theory" of it all, too??)...and just occupying China....

If you truly believe otherwise, contact BFC and make an offer they cannot refuse. BFC would never have made a game on Soviet war in Afghanistan on their own, either.

Sorry, what's this referring to? The Koch Brothers funded Battlefront's Afghan effort or something??

[Can We Get a Combat Mission in Asia, Ever?]

Jungles and Islands are both somewhat problematic from a game play perspective. In a vaguely realistic jungle simulation the LOS issues are such that no one above the squad leader has much if any idea whats happening at a given spot, and even less ability to influence it.

The island fighting was mostly serial bunker reduction. It was expensive in both men and material but very repetitious. If the U.S. was ashore at all it usually meant that the Japanese ability to maneuver was essentially over.

But that's why I'd mentioned those other scenarios, such as that Russian Far East one early on. Also, one could conceive of scenarios involving the occupation of China, or the invasion of Australia -- et cetera.

I think such an effort would put Battlefront on the map yet again! Imagine: finally, the first real WWII-in-Asia wargame...am I correct in my sense that this is something of a "holy grail" of WWII wargaming??

[Two Frenchmen Remember]

Like Squad Leader? Start with a 7-0 Sgt and try to become that 10-3 leader?

Close Combat One did that. Your guy was promoted based on a variety of things; scenarios won, kills etc. . IIRC he could get wounded, but would sit out the next battle in the campaign.

So when your guy gets KIA, campaign ends right then and there?

Nah, that's the thing...more role-playing doesn't mean tactical AI and experience points. I mean really knowing what it's like being a battlefield commander -- who aren't directing automatons (such as we are, in fact, doing with our sprites or whatever these pretty graphics are called) but real people with a real history.

Now Close Combat was a great first step in this area but not sufficient. There needs to be an emotional angle to things. For example, imagine if one of your soldiers in a wargame was an ardent Nazi...who one day shat himself at the sight of the umpteenth Russian tank or something (hell, imagine that he's one of your very best soldiers, oder?). Imagine if your soldiers moved through a Russian village where the scorched earth policy was graphically evident -- dead cows, etc. Imagine seeing anti-German graffiti. Imagine bypassing fresh SS Einsatzgruppen on your weary, wounded way to the rear after a hard fight. Imagine then refusing to fight anywhere where SS are present...and being threatened with being shot...only to be simply transferred to another front or back home to a training battalion (as I understand to have been actually the case in the pitifully few cases of such insubordination), ending your illustrious career and thus the game -- do you see how "educational" that would be, how much more "emotion" would result, and what an experience like no other game in any genre that would be??

I'm talking role-playing, I'm talking emotions, I'm talking educational...I'm talking art. (Screw the politically correct crowd; what do they know -- besides, the publicity would be enormous.)

Patriotism? Duty? Moral dilemmas are much more challenging, never mind interesting, than what tactic to apply to which obstacle. Talk about "total" war!

I know Battlefront's budget is barely there for even the mechanical aspects of what they want to do, never mind this ambitious and vague stuff I'm talking about -- but this would be a hit, guaranteed. Battlefront's servers would get deluged from a mention by the New York Times' videogame journalist. See what I mean? I think it'd even inspire the Nobel committee to create a whole new prize category!

Wargaming can be about so much more than physics and tactical AI. I hope that one day it becomes as profoundly moving (and educational, in all ways) as something like "Band of Brothers" (which is why I mentioned my surprise Spielberg and Hanks haven't invested in wargaming themselves, given their apparently intense effort at preserving the memory of those times, which involved so much more than facts and factoids)...yes, I believe we should seriously consider such a development path now, given the exponential progress of computing power to come.

[Can We Get a Combat Mission in Asia, Ever?]

Okay, so it's not that nothing interesting happened there, wargaming-wise. But I still don't see how the market of grognards would avoid a WWII Asian war. I know it's not as sexy as Nazis (which, BTW, seem less "sexy" without their swastikas -- I think the politically correct crowd are unwittingly diminishing the evil of the Nazis by forcing game developers to pretend these are just German units same as any other German unit in any other German conflict in German history), but I'd imagine the interest is there.

[All Right, Who's Peng??]

Erm...someone should just make "Peng" a sticky. I know inside jokes are cool, but I'm amazed at how long this one goes on!

[Can We Get a Combat Mission in Asia, Ever?]

I remember there was talk of this back in the Big Time Software days, and I think some folks said it wasn't going to be done 'cause not much interesting happened over there during WWII that would make for an enjoyable tactical simulation. Do I remember correctly??

But then how about that early Soviet engagement with the Japanese which made them decide to focus efforts elsewhere, or how the Japanese sent their tanks through Malayan jungles to catch the British from behind, or even an Iwo Jima thinggy as the Japanese commander?? I'm just the most casual of wargamers (like, "Close Combat" was a wargame to me) so these scenarios seem pretty interesting to me (in fact, I'm looking forward to Theatre of War 3: Korea as the Chinese commander, wondering how to intelligently deploy inferior forces)....

Anyway, just wonder whether years later the thinking's changed on this. To be honest, I'm getting a little tired of panzers and GI Joes...heck, how about colonial wars and ancient wars?? I know Battlefront's still fairly limited budgetwise as in their BTS days but could I really be the only one who's tired of seeing Germans, Americans, and Russians every time I pop back in here every three years or so??

Just curious; TIA!

[Battlefront: What *Is* It with Your Manuals Online????]

The online manuals are meant to give you a fancy preview and possibly to look up something specific (e.g. if there is an updated version), they are not meant to be read page to page. They are mainly pre-release (for pre-order customers, or if you're waiting for a demo or full version to finish downloading ). As others pointed out, all of our games (and most demos) come with PDF manuals.

Wow, thanks for the explanation, that makes more sense now why y'all chose to go this route. But you do realize that most people looking for online manuals do expect to read them online, too, and even download them, right? But you have your reasons, I am sure; thanks again for explaining. When it comes to customer service, even if things aren't how a customer wants, just knowing that there's some rhyme and reason to the apparent madness makes things okay, if not all right!