eltorrente
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Posts posted by eltorrente
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Streety, if you are an old-school wargamer, then I assume you played against other humans. Why don't you want to play against humans in this game? The computing power goes into calculating LOS, round trajectories, penetration, graphics, animation, etc etc.
You talk like programming AI shouldn't be hard to do at all - like it's just a matter of having more powerful computers. That's just being naive, really. If you know how to program challenging AI, then you should share your code with Battlefront.
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^ for all intents and purposes, it doesn't exist.. It doesn't "think", and has no concept of strategy. It's all based on what the scenario designer has planned out.
To quote what you quoted: "However, the AI can improvise, to some extent, within the designer’s parameters. " so within the designers parameters, the TacAI will take over sometimes and react to a threat. Maybe it'll backup out of danger - maybe it'll stop and shoot at someone. It WILL NOT react and respond to the strategic moves that you make and has no clue what is going on strategically. It will only react, to some extent, WITHIN THE DESIGNER'S PARAMETERS.
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I target light area fire with mortars, and target area fire with MG's. I almost never directly target an enemy unit directly with my fire teams, because as soon as the enemy cowers and they lose sight - they'll stop firing.. Best to just area target with them, and let "normal" troops fire on their own when they see them.
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The reason the AI opponent gets to find pinholes in foliage is it lets the TacAI (in that there's nothing else) do the targeting, rather than, as I had been, giving everything a target order. If you give the tank that hasn't got a spotted target an area target because you can't (at the turn break/pause) draw LOF to the tank you really want to kill, the TacAI doesn't get the chance to fire through the fleeting gaps in the wind-blown tree canopy. Since the AI opponent doesn't give "speculative" area fire commands, the TacAI is free to fire on targets of opportunity.
Ahhh I see what you mean.
I very rarely give target commands to any of my units. No need for that 99% of the time.
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What are you guys talking about?!?!?!
The AI doesn't analyze LOS and search around for firing paths. The AI doesn't even exist, really. There is TacAI for units, of course, but the "AI" never decides on it's own to move this unit here, and this unit there, and go through these trees and flank this tank and blah blah.
The scenario designer places units in good spots and issues orders for them. That's it! Your own units have the exact same TacAI as the computer does.
"The AI's all but unholy ability to find fire paths"?!?!? What the heck are you talking about?
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Yeah, I agree. I'm planning an artillery mission, then realize I should have targeted somewhere else instead - so I cancel, then I gotta wait until the next turn to do it again.
During the planning phase, I shouldn't have to wait after cancelling - since presumably the artillery doesn't actually get my fire order until after I hit the red button.
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Well, FWIW, I just saw a clip on CNN that showed a Syrian rebel firing an RPG from inside a building - and the camera man didn't seem to flinch.
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Yeah, I'm thinking people don't want to "work for it". Make the scenario because you like making scenarios.
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Yup, they all say "packing up" until they are limbered up.
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MY apologies guys.
I forgot to rename the file on the sever to ATG.bts. I have done so now and you can now download it.I downloaded it, played it, and it works like it's supposed to.
It says in the ui that it takes 4.4 minutes to pack up, and that's about how long it took. After 4.4 minutes, they limbered up and started moving toward the truck.
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That method has produced excellent results for me with the larger calibres. Not used it in H2H yet, but when a battery's going to take nearly a quarter of an hour to FFE, but could fire a couple of shells a turn for 50 minutes (and those 2 shells will really mess stuff up), it's definitely in the playbook.
I don't use big artillery much, but my opponents do every now and then. From being on the receiving end, I think that the slow firing works really well.
If a round is dropping in an area 1 or 2 times a round, I stay clear. Infantry are so vulnerable when they're walking, that they can get killed from quite a distance away from the large shells.
I'm currently in a PBEM with Ian.Leslie, and he has some big artillery - not sure how big, but they are leaving huge holes in the ground that's for sure. I've had to form my strategy in large part avoiding the LOS areas from his FO (I'm think I know where he is.. ).
It changes the whole face of the battle just having occasional rounds dropping. I like it better when they just fire fast and furious and get it over with, then I can get on with my game.
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The file isn't available so we can't look at it.
I often see ATG guns not doing what they are told, and several minutes go by before they actually unlimber and face where I want. Every time this has happened, it's because one of the team members is walking off on his own - out of synch with the rest of the ATG team.
If you see one of the ATG gun team members walking around on his own, it's best to simply wait until he makes his way back. If you try and give the whole team another move command to force him back faster, he'll still keep walking to the old waypoints first before going to the latest one. Best to sit there and wait it out, which can be quite painful.
One of my guns did this in a current PBEM I'm playing. It took about 7 minutes for my ATG team to finally get their sh*t together and unlimbered the gun.
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I see this happen occasionally. I don't think I've ever seen the MG team stay in that "deploying" mode for more than a few turns without firing. Usually when it happens, they'll start firing on their own. I've also seen this happen, then they start firing, then it goes back to "deploying" sometime later.
I would suggest giving them a face command as Womble said - then just leave them alone and hope for the best. They'll prob start firing eventually.
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It's easy to confirm that targeting from a waypoint calculates LOS from that waypoint, and not the origin that it pivots from. Just look at the target range that is displayed when you drag the line around. It will show distance from the waypoint, and not the origin.
Also, you can easily confirm that the LOS is from the waypoint by plotting a waypoint past an obstacle of some sort, and you'll see that when targeting from the waypoint - you can now see on the other side of the obstacle.
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I think it's usually permissible (but ask!) to use the first-turn LOS advantage to plot delayed barrages on parts of the map (though still not the set-up zone) not visible to the plotter. This LOS advantage is not a bug but a feature: it represents prior intelligence, map-plotting, and other artillery planning that would not be conducted by observers right up front as the battle commences.
Yeah, that's permissible from what I've encountered so far. If you think the enemy is going to go for a particular tree line, then do a 10 minute delayed barrage on it - no problem. It's nice to do delayed pre-planned, because there's no spotting rounds.
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In a PBEM meeting engagement - it's generally considered a no-no. Always make sure to mention this to an opponent you've never played before.
In an Attack/Defend PBEM, it's perfectly fine for the Attacker - but not for the defender.
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Break them down as soon as possible.
The only reason that I can see for keeping them together is when I don't feel like micromanaging. I usually keep them together for the first few minutes, until I start getting closer to the area I'm going for.
As soon as I give specific orders to scout, attack, occupy a treeline, building - ANYTHING basically - they are split and I try and keep distance between the squad sections.
I love it when playing PBEM's when my opponent doesn't split his squads. It's so easy to get lots of kills when there's 12 guys all grouped up together.
Keep them split and keep them separated.
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Yeah, I appreciate that people spend countless hours on scenarios - but I just don't play them much at all. It isn't fun to take advantage of the stupid AI. In fact, I get bored and often abandon games mid-way through once I know I have a clear advantage. I only fire them up when I'm really wanting to play but don't have a PBEM turn to work on.
My favorite thing is to play PBEM's with random QB maps. The fights are always completely different, and nothing beats the fun of matching wits against a thinking human.
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Good point. But what do you do for targets that are in LOS of the whole mortar team? This is very relevant in FI with it's more open spaces..
I often get away with it as well, but I've also had mortar crews take fire quite a bit. True I dont know if the 'tubing' was the reason, or if it was small arms fire, but I DO know that the crew opening up with its carbines or K98s wasnt much of a help and definitely contributed to them being spotted..
Even if target light only used rifles and regular target used mortar only. As it is now I think target light does what with mortars? fires less rounds than normal, as in a lower RoF?
The undisciplined behavior of my mortar squad's rifleman cause me problems maybe 5% of the time. Most of the time - either they don't see the target I'm firing mortars at, or they are very far away, or there's other friendlies much closer that are engaging the target also. Usually whoever might spot them is getting fired at by other guys anyway (if all goes to plan).
I guess I'm just really cautious with them and don't use them at all unless I know for sure that I'm not going to get spotted and blown away when they start shooting.
I don't sneak them around and go for that perfect spot necessarily - instead I just follow behind the platoon - nice and boring - and hang way back. I use Target Light most of the time, since it conserves ammo - so I try to keep them alive for as long as possible. I just use them to add suppression for infantry assaults and to directly help my platoon when they get into a firefight.
I think some people are just way too aggressive with them.
I'm currently playing 8 PBEM's, so I play a lot and see all sorts of tactics.
The mistake my opponents often make is usually the same - they move up behind a wall or bocage or whatever, and start firing fast and furious on one of my split squads. I see them right away, and they fire off 15 rounds and kill 2 of my guys (what an investment..
). Next turn I target their mortar with my mortar (Target Light if I have other units to target them with also), and anyone else who can at least area fire on them - and they're dead the next round usually.In PBEM's, it's very rare that I get direct-fired at by mortar units who are just out of LOS. Seems everyone uses them like normal units and they are always nice and visible when they are firing.
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This is highly annoying and really should be fixed. In one game I was very proud of sneaking a mortar to a highly covered tree line with direct sight on an enemy position only to get off 1 shot before all hell broke out from enemy field guns because they were alerted to my mortar by it crew small arms fire.
Well, luckily mortars can fire from just beyond "normal" LOS. You can put a mortar unit one action square back from where you would normally put it to see an enemy, and then you can direct target with the mortar, and the rest of the rifleman won't fire (because they can't see the target).
I use mortars all the time, and very, very rarely are they spotted or take fire.
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All the panzerfausts you'll see in the CMx2 games now can only reach to 30m. Bazookas and panzerschrecks, while technically have a max range of 250 meters, are almost useless at that range. The closer definitely the better, though I usually open fire at 100m unless I have a specific ambush in mind.
Yeah I'd also recommend not paying attention to the 250 max range for bazookas. They can hit at that range, and occasionally get lucky, but it's best to shoot at less than 100m. At around 100m, a good team can hit maybe half of the time. I always expect them to miss on the first shot. If I can help it, I like to get within 50m before opening up.
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One thing I've learned with using smoke, is to not try to get too fancy and time things TOO closely. I like to shoot smoke 1 turn before I start moving, and even then - the smoke generally takes a bit longer to get nice and thick.
I try to shoot the smoke as close to the enemy position as I can, while still being out of sight to the main force. Sometimes I can target it quite close, but usually I end up shooting it 30 yards or so out in front.
One thing to consider also, is wind. Study the wind and you might find that you can shoot it off to the side and back a bit, and the wind will carry it directly into the badguy position. You might have to wait an extra minute or two to launch your attack, but you'll have longer to coordinate, plus the smoke lasts several minutes anyway.
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Paulverisor64 - you can get men to exit a vehicle and then drive it away by giving the men a "Dismount" command before giving the vehicle its movement orders. It will then wait for them to exit before carrying out its orders.
Nothing works for mid-travel waypoints though - you can only get guys out before or after a plotted movement for the vehicle.
Note also that Dismount is, like Bail Out, a command which cannot be undone - once pressed, the only way you can change your mind is to reload the turn and start again.
Quite why we have (just a few) commands that commit you before you press the red button is something I do not understand, but that's for a different thread
Oh cool - that's a handy tip. I was wondering what the use was for the dismount command, when you could simply move them instead.
I agree with others about tying the dismount to a waypoint. That would solve the only issue I have with dealing with troops in halftracks.
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Here's a few tidbits from what I've seen in-game with halftracks and troops:
- If your troops are in a vehicle, then they will always wait until the vehicle orders are completed before disembarking. Give the halftrack a pause of 30seconds, 5 waypoints with pauses, whatever - they'll wait till all the orders are complete before disembarking.
- If troops are in the act of disembarking at the end of a turn, then any orders you issue to the halftrack won't happen until the last guy is out. It'll sit there and wait till they are all out before heading off to the next waypoint.
- If your halftrack is full of troops at the beginning of a turn, then you can either move the halftrack and disembark somewhere else - or you can sit there and disembark and not move after that.
- You can pause in the beginning of a turn and embark troops, then move when they are embarked, though. The halftrack won't move until all the troops are inside, no matter how long you set the initial pause for. This is only if the vehicle is paused for long enough for the first soldier to step inside.
- I'm pretty sure you can also move a halftrack next to a squad's position and pause, and once it pauses the squad will embark on the halftrack (obviously only if it had an embark order), then the halftrack will move to the next waypoint after they are all embarked.
I forgot to rename the file on the sever to ATG.bts. I have done so now and you can now download it.
BigDork vs Tiresias - Seizing the Windmill - German Version
in Combat Mission Fortress Italy
Posted
I'm glad to see this AAR going again. This one has been very interesting, and is a good demonstration of how much fun PBEM's can be. Just about everyone I've played has a been a fun opponent, and it's been great to match wits with a thinking enemy general, as opposed to the AI.
I'm hoping you can pull this victory off, and I think you can do it with your forces at hand. Use the clock and let him come to you, and it should be a good fight.