jwatts
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Posts posted by jwatts
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I also have read Carius' book, and some of the things he does do seem rather unreal. However, TO be a company commander in a Tiger battalion was a pretty prestigious posting, therefore attracting the best and brightest of Panzer crews, for the first couple of years at least. As for the bulleted "what ifs", I can really only even guess at the second, where you ask what if the infantry had bazooka type weapons. As a talented Panzer commander, Carius most likely would have known that Russian infantry had no weapons at the time that could threaten his tanks? Ah, but I forget when the first RPG came out, it might indeed be before this particular action, however one would assume that if he knew of the weapons he would have taken steps to avoid them. Then again, the answers to all of these questions might be that he was a typical German Ubermenschen who beleived he was unstoppable? I'm sure more than one Panzer crew member lost his life because he underestimated his enemy.
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Thanks everyone for the responses, this thread is pretty long considering it's one of the first I started. No congrats are in order, however, as the thread is currently under a ruthless grog-hijacking attempt! Damnable grog pirates! All silliness aside, Mr Kettler, please understand I wasn't referring to YOU, but rather another rather prominent poster with, shall we say, noticeably less social graces than you. I think we all know who I mean, but since he likely searches the forums for times his name is mentioned I won't get into details. I do like how you relegated me to the status of newcomer. Hey bud, I've been playing this game since the first public demos came out, maybe not as long as you, but I was probably the youngest member of the CM community (silent though I may have been) when I began playing. Interestingly enough, my roomate caught me posting here (and with my peers, that's almost as shameful as being caught looking up midget porn) and wondered "Wow, people still play this game? Isn't it like 3 years old"? That might have been the wrong way to do quotations, but you get my point, that's dedication my friends!
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Exactly my thoughts. I defer to the judgement of my elders and betters.
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And in that you're 100% correct, I don't beleive I asked about specific tactics in my initial post. However I DID ask at some point, dont ask me where, about what I should do in the above situation. What you told me is roughly what I would have thought, but some verification was helpful. And without a snarky response. How refreshing.
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Hm. Actually Jason, I beleive I am being a WHINY little boy, as it appears whinny is the noise a horse makes when it gets an apple or some other such delicacy. Or perhaps you were censoring a naughty word with an innocous one such as whinny? Either way, I might be whining, I might misunderstand the historical truths (though you do ever so much to correct that), or I might be a genius. I'll go with the middle answer, but ya'll are free to make your own assumtions. I was merely bitching and moaning, (and I beleive it is said that those are the combat soldiers two essential freedoms, whether the combat is cyber or not), about the small noticeable effects of crew experience. My amount of readings on the subject is surely not as volumnious as yours, Jason, but it does appear that the "crack" crews (the Carius', the Wittmans, etc) seem to hit an enemy at combat rangers within 2 shots on most occasions. Please, oh wise one, enlighten me as to why this belief of mine is so dramatically wrong that I deserved ridicule.
PS this is written somewhat tounge-in-cheek, you decide to get offended, not my problem bud. Oh and I wasn't offended (jibes about my lack of WWII knowledge just don't have that effect on me), in case anyone is wondering. I just like to challenge authority, and in these forums Jason is it.
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I know, that's why I find this forum so engaging! Since people's intrest, or at least expertise, seems to somewhat follow along with their nationality, having a very multi-national group of members allows for a huge dissemination of information. Kind of like my old high school, except for the sharing of information and lack of gang violence and police searches (my high school had over 93 languages spoken).
Quick Edit: I looked at that link for Poor Old Spike, took most of my afternoon looking only at the posts he began, the illustrated ones, and am nowhere near finished! Thanks so much for the idea.
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Hm, it seems once again an in-game tactics discussion has turned into a grogfest! As much as I love reading stats on the relative kill ratios of different weapons for different nationalities in different theatres, I think I'll go ahead and respectfully ignore all of that mumbo jumbo. I didn't become a history major to do numbers stuff! Jason, thanks for you reply on my 2pdr dilema, unfortunately I beleive you might have misunderstood my question. I'm not very good with armor, but I have a pretty good idea of how to take out Ubercats with the right things. I don't play many QBs, but for late war ones I tend to buy a few things capable of hurting the cats. Hell, I can deal with a few AI controlled Tigers with some plain nilla Sherms. What I can't do, and what I was asking advice about, was what to do when faced with 4 or so Tigers, a smattering of ACs and PzIIIs, and infantry, when the only AT capability I have is a few 2pdrs and infantry ATRs? I got the impression that trying to ping a Tiger to death is not too bright, so what do you suggest? Using my limited medium arty to try and get some imobilizations, or take out his supporting armor and hope he gets his Tigers close enough for close assault (not a fun option in the desert)?
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Oh, I understand clearly the difficulty of hitting a moving tank, especially ones as fast as T-34s or Shermans. The impetus for the complaint comes from several instances where Shermans have been pummeling my front line infantry, I bring a vertran/crack Tiger around to flame a couple, and in a matter of maybe 30-45 seconds they back away and out of sight, without actually getting any hits. Should I just be happy my landsers are getting a respite from the HE rain, or angry that not one of the Amerikaners perished?
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Man, if only school hadn't just started! I have been getting all these great book reccomendations, which I had plenty of time to read over my break (at least a few of them), but unfortunately now the only free reading time I have is the breaks I give myself in between studying my various other (and required, I might add)history texts. I think it speaks wonders for my future grog greatness that in between required readings on psychology and the Hapsburg monarchy, I relax by reading about the exploits of the 1RTR. Oh and drink copiously of course.
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Haha, wow I seriously need to turn down my sarcasm meter! Thanks for the concern, but the remarks are simply that, remarks. It would take far more than that to offend me, and an act of God to get me to stop playing CM. Am going right now to check out this Spike chap, or bloke, or however ya'll fogbreathers say it.
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I think borg spotting is entirely the reason for this, but what do I know? If you pop out with a high-experience crew, brew up a couple of Russian tanks (or American, or British, or Canadian, etc), there's a good chance one of their buddies will get you before you get back in cover. Even if you do manage to make it back to cover, the opponent knows the approximate position of your tank, and often times the maps won't allow for a good alternate firing location. This complaint, of course, is kind of in line with one I will make for myself. I personally am lacking in armor tactics in CM, but am practicing and getting a little better. My only real complaint is that often crack or elite tank crews take 3-4 shots before they get a hit! One miss, sure I can see that, but I think crew experience should count for more than that. If I have a crack Tiger, popping out of cover for shots on some Shermans, I expect him to nail one of them within 3 shots. Is this undermodelled in the game, or am I just being a whiny little boy who needs to reform his armor tactics a little more?
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Aw, see now my feelings are a tad hurt. I'm no kid, gosh dang it! Well, I guess to most older people, 20 is still a kid, so no harm done I suppose. But please, please don't let that distract you from being uncivil to me! I may indeed be young, but beleive you me, I'm plenty used to insults, especially since the main ones floating around this forum seem to be along the lines of "you have no idea on the German tank strength from 13-20 April, 1943" and things of that nature. I'm no grog, and therefore won't get into groggy discussions, unless of course I fell like ruffling some grog feathers. Not to mention I believe it was you, Corvidae, who in another post defended my honor, telling someone to lay off as I'm a newbie or something of that honor (which I greatly appreciated, I might add). So ya'll, don't think of me as a kid, think of me as the one member of this forum who will be glad to drive to the store, rap music blaring and cutting off minivans, to get everyone new depends. Once I get the Mac bundle pack and my internet hooked up, ya'll will be needing em. Though most likely only because my play is so inept that you laughed a little too hard.
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Wow I am definitely getting some great answers for my questions. Huzzah! Methinks I should plagarize all these good answers, and others throughout the forums, and make 'em into a book, which of course would make the NY Times bestseller list. In terms of lower armor force casualties in the Western Desert, does this apparent luck the Brits had change with the introduction of more and more 75mm+ AT and tank main guns? I can see how a 20mm autocannon shell would be a lot more fun to be hit with in a light cruiser tank than oh, say a 75mm short HE. I'm glad to see that my theory on german armor disperment (not based on any research of course) is somewhat right: the conditions were far more favorable and tactically important in the British sector, so the main German armour strength was in that area, but to a certain extent the German High Command didn't have a choice. In regards to the terrain, however, was the reason less Ubertanks were used against the Americans in the bocage simply because in that sort of terrain, much less was needed? Surely it would be much easier to contain an armor attack with less tanks in the close bocage? Especially with Pak and Panzershreck/fausts taking up much of the slack. Finally with my last question, dealing with 2pdrs facing Tigers, I of course understand the life span of the guns is going to measured in seconds, not minutes. In the particular scenario I am referring to, however, the Germans have a pretty nice selection of armored cars and short 75 PanzerIII. When faced with this, where should I direct my fire? Concentrate on taking out as much light/medium armor as possible before my 2pdrs are knocked out, hide the guns until the Tigers are right on top of me and hope to get lucky side shots, or attempt some immobilisation/gun damage from long range pings?
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I don't read gaming mags, since most of my reading time at the moment is centered around the Hapsburgs, Nazis, Mexico, or whatever else history course I'm taking, but I remember well when i first laid eyes on CMBO demo. My father instilled a great love of history on me, and WW2 is just about my favorite historical period, so you can imagine my 12 year old glee at seeing a game on the sudject. Once I played the demo, with its relativelty ultra realism, and historical significance, I was hooked, and bad.
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Exactly what I was getting at, King. If a 2pdr has, say, 2 loaders, then losing one of them would not be as big of a deal, as I assume that one man can still load the gun, albiet slightly slower. However, for a 105mm crew, with maybe 4 loaders, losing one would make a much bigger difference, as the shells are extremely heavy (at least I think they are). Of course all of these crew and loader numbers are mere conjecture to prove a point, I'm no grog. I think that in discussions like these, math plays a much smaller role in discussions centering about tank losses, armor penetration, etc, with common sense taking a much higher priority.
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All very good aonswers, thanks so much for the help guys! Excepting of course Flamingknives, that kind of rudeness ensures that I will never again play CM or step my electronic feet into the forums again. Of course I kid. I wasn't aware that 2pdr was the correct way to state the caliber, us Americans (or Texians, whichever ya'll prefer) don't know much about that kinda thing. Apparently in the UK these kinds of things are taught at an early age. That or I'm not nearly groggy enough.
As to the Western Desert fighting, it appears my assumption was correct, in that 2pdr AP is so undermodelled in game. Now, I'm not so much disputing Mr Kettler's claim that German AP killed far more crew than 2pdr AP as amazed by it. In my reading of the 1RTR book, casualties in the desert seem rather light. Usually when it lists a tank destroyed, or lit up rather, one, possibly two crew members are wounded, in extreme cases a KIA. Was this survivability negated by later German introductions in the theatre (88mm flak, early Tigers)? If so, why are the listed casualties of the 1RTR so low? Also to Mr Kettler, I understand that I can override the TacAI and force it to engage non-armored targets, as I frequently do just that. My qualm is with the TacAIs unwillingness to automatically target non-armored targets simply because the AFV might not have any AP. I wouldn't think that IRL the lack of appropriate ammo would stop a tank crew from firing whatever they had laying around.
In regards to the high number of Ubercats facing the CW forces in France, it is a litle clearer now. Was there a reason for placing most of the heavies across from the British forces? I would think one such reason would possibly be that the British had heavier AFVs than the Americans, who were primarily equipped with Shermans. Or was it simply a coincidence? I would hesitate to call that a coincidence simply because I don't think the OKW would be quite so arbitrary with panzer unit assignments, especially the heavy cats.
Ok, now for one more (I hope this is it) 2pdr question. In early war North Africa scenarios involving the early Tigers (2pdrs and Tigers is one that comes to mind), are the British 2pdrs best used by hiding until lighter armor shows up, then being immediately wiped out by the overwatch TIgers, or is it worth anything to engage the cats at long ranges (maybe 800-900m), not so much to penetrate but to hope for gun damage, immobilisation, or maybe a panicky crew bailing out? I try not to play such scenarios as the Brits for just this reason, but lately I have been hankering to do just that, and was looking for some advice on how to do more than just needlessly waste my inadequate, but only, AT weapon.
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I was under the impression that CM couldn't run on Mac OS? If there are indeed MAC versions this is new to me! Hmmm, I guess my age is showing considering I clearly do absolutely NO research before I post. Much like my school papers I suppose. Ah well, patience and reason are for older and wiser persons than I. Being young and impetous(sp?) is fun, though I bet it would make me a far worse H2H player. Hey who knows, I figger this whole Mac thing out I'll be ready for some matches!
EDIT: Holy God, I had never noticed, $40 US for BOTH CMAK AND BB?!?! Oh it's on like Donkey Kong now you old geezers! Even though I'll undoubtably suffer a terrific embarrasing defeat, I am very much looking forward to this. Give me a few weeks to arrive.
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I am not much of an expert on British armor (or should I say armour?), but I recently purchased a book (forget the name) about the 1 and 2 RTR unit histories. In all of my reading about the battles in the Western Desert, while the regiment's tanks were equipped with 2lb AP only, they seem to be much more effective than is modelled in CM. Not to mention the TacAI's reluctance to aim AP shells at anything other than AFVs (I know this is the purpose of AP, but I would prefer AP to nothing!). While discussing questions on the book, I might also ask, about how many of the accounts of "panthers/tigers" are true, in regards to fighting in NW Europe? Every time they run into opposition, it is only 88mm guns, Tigers, or Panthers. Obviously SOME of this is exaggeration due to FOW, but what kind of numbers of Ubercats are we talking about the Brits ACTUALLY facing in Normandy/Caen/Falaise?
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HAHA ZING! Ya got me. But in my defense, not only are my CM computer and internet computer not one and the same, but they are in different houses. I started playing CM GOd, must have been when I was 12 or so, right as the very first demo came out(the one with Valley of Trouble and Chance Encounter). Thus, all my CM stuff is at my parents house. And my computer I have is a Mac, which, if there is a way to play CM on there, I can't figure out.
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No, no, you're getting my poitn wrong. That's why I love the forums, because you can assume that what certain people say is true. I really don't get enough time on CM to spend it doing tests of things. Of course, if any old jackass says something I of course won't beleive it automatically, just the experts, which you defintiely qualify as. Is the difference significant, say 2-3 seconds slower per shot fired, or just slightly slower than a full complement of men? And is the difference more noticeable with a larger gun, say 75mm +? I would assume that for a gun such as, say, a 37mm, loss of crew would affect it much less that larger weapons.
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Hm, I had never noticed a degradation in performance from AT guns due to casualties, but I chalk that up primarily to lack of caring, and the fact that after my AT guns are targeted, the crews self destruct the weapon. That or I have horrible luck in letting my guns live. Maybe(and I DO understand this is JasonC baiting)i should just leave them all on hill crests?
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My thoughts exactly. In fact, I think the school library might want a little money from me, seeing as I checked it out somewhere between october and november of last year. Yessir folks, it's just that good. As to the editions, it might be my youthful stupidity but I didn't think to check when it was published. Must have been the older one, as it was paperback, but it seemed in pretty good condition. In all my time lurking in these forums, I think I might be one of the younger players, as such, none of my friends can stand to even try the damned game. I'm just a WW2 buff I spose. Now if I could only find a way to have my internet computer be my CM computer, I could play all the old decrepit opponents i could find.
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As far as Mr. Beevor is concerned, I have yet to delve into either of his books on the great urban battlefields of dubya dubya two, but I can HIGHLY reccomend his book on the Spanish Civil War. Don't have it on me at the moment, but I beleive the title is "The Battle for Spain", or somthing like that. I found the book completely on accident, having never heard of him before, as I recently had a class that touched on that conflict, but thouroughly (sp?) enjoyed it. I spoke with the professor, who was also the head of the history department, and he claimed that the book is one of the most comprehensive book on the Spanish Civil War, at least amongst those printed in english. Personally, I found it had the wonderful characteristic of speaking on not only the millitary, but also political aspects of the ordeal. Has anyone else read this particular book, I know there are more than a few SCW buffs in here.
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Argh, how did I know I wasn't giving enough info the first time? OK here goes. Italy, june/july 44, midday, clear skies. Basic attack, nothing too plain. Not city fighting, maybe rural/farmland/small village?
German 88mm - what's the point...
in Combat Mission - Tips and Tricks
Posted
I haven't done any tests, but it seems that I have been able to back trucks into woods and deposit guns there. However, those occasions might not have been with 88mm flak cannons, so a definitive answer might no be possible. A lot of times when i debark guns it seems they are dropped right in the middle of the vehicle location. Anyone who has done tests is invited, nay required, to post an answer!