Sigrun

There's zero stalling involved. Anybody who knows the military history of WW2, who has studied it in depth for thirty years, objectively, knows the Waffen-SS kicked serious butt all the way through the war from 1939 to 1945. That is an undeniable and irrefutable fact. </font>

There's zero stalling involved. Anybody who knows the military history of WW2, who has studied it in depth for thirty years, objectively, knows the Waffen-SS kicked serious butt all the way through the war from 1939 to 1945. That is an undeniable and irrefutable fact. But to say so means one is a nazi, apparently. How lame. How dishonest. How dispicably barren of even a shred of intellectual credibility. </font>

There's zero stalling involved. Anybody who knows the military history of WW2, who has studied it in depth for thirty years, objectively, knows the Waffen-SS kicked serious butt all the way through the war from 1939 to 1945. That is an undeniable and irrefutable fact. But to say so means one is a nazi, apparently. How lame. How dishonest. How dispicably barren of even a shred of intellectual credibility.

Apparently it does, when one side of the debate cannot refrain from trash-talking insults and abuse, finally encouraged and joined by an admin in a disgraceful display of partisanship.

Do you really think I can be arsed to root out stuff the entire world has already seen countless times, in books and on internet sites?! Do you really expect to have anyone with an intellect larger than an orange believe that my contention is defeated because I don't cut & paste the aforementioned data into this forum? Is anyone actually that asinine?! Please, spare me that absurdity. We have Steve claiming that millions were involved in the slaughter of the jews, when even the victors, in all their hasty enthusiasm, could muster but twenty accused for the Nuremburg show-trial. Millions indeed. You'd have thought, in that case, that they might have tried at least a few thousand then. Eh Steve? Oh, sorry, that's a valid and salient point...you better ban me, eh?

The insane always think everybody else is crazy. So 20,000,000 civilians apparently jumped in front of bullets, lept into gas chambers, starved themselves, beat themselves to death, and otherwise met a brutal and premature end to their lives without the aid of more than handful of derranged Germans and their minions? What a wonderful theory. Now back that up. The truth of the matter is laid out quite clearly. Everybody else discusses facts, you hurtle insults and challenge nothing but our patience. For starters, how about answering the charge that the OKW ordered that "no prisoners be taken" and therefore 5,170 unarmed Italian Army soldiers were executed on the Greek island of Kefalonia: http://www.ushmm.org/research/center/publications/occasional/2002-03/paper.pdf You apparently don't like to talk specifics (too tough to dodge facts), so I expect you will not reply to this point but instead throw more insults back at me. Thus once again proving who you are. That makes perfect sense since you are a neo-Nazi, neo-Fascist, Nazi apologist, or untral nationalist. You take your pick which one we should call you, but you are what you are. I've seen Hollocaust denniers that have done a better job and disguising their true motivations than you. Your time here is limited. Since nobody is buying into your distorted ideology, trying to push it onto the rest of the Forum is pointless. If you persist then you will cross over the line and become classified as a Troll. If you do that, you will be banned. If you don't like it, go to a neo-Nazi website of your choice and you won't have to push your concepts of the world at all... they will find a readily receptive audience. Steve </font>

Oh boy, one really gets some crackers here! Great Britain and it's imperialist empire, abuse of native populations by troops "used for the interests of an imperialist state". The torture, rape and murder of countless hundreds of thousands, if not millions. The concentration camps of the Boer war (yes, it may suprise you to know the british invented the concentration camp). Oh how long do we have to go over this...shall we get into the united states war of genocide against the native indians? Hmm? Shall we? Man is a beast, and nowhere is that more proved true than when he is at war with himself. Yet to hear the self-righteous cant being spouted here about the Waffen-SS, you'd think they were unique in other ways than their un-matched prowess in combat. The soviets under stalin murdered about four times as many humans as the nazis did under hitler, but that didn't stop Roosevelt and Churchill from supping with him, did it. Oh the rank hypocrisy of you blinkered revisionist dupes.

Are we convinced yet that he's a troll, Steve? Can we ban him yet? Oh listen to it. Unable to present little more than it's own insults and abuse it now goes toadying to it's master for a ban. How utterly bankrupt you truly are.

The only irony Steve is your distorted thinking calling my thinking distorted. I've studied the subject matter ten years longer than you, and unlike you I'm not afraid to think freely and look outside the box by which you and your ilk are constrained. "Millions took part" indeed; what complete and utter rubbish. But hugely funny. Clearly your four years at university taught you nothing of value. About the best you can come up with is rhetoric and crude insults, such as implying I must be a neo-nazi because I regard the Waffen-SS for what they were. A truly shabby display, but not so suprising when you are clearly playing to the cheap flattery of the peanut gallery. And to bring up "snazzy uniforms" but made of "cheap material"...oh my god, how peurile?! Trying to talk sense to so throughly indoctrinated mental stumps as you lot is no more productive than trying to herd cats. You don't debate, you simply hurl insults and abuse. "Nazi" this and "neo-nazi" that. A truly classic forum mob of buddy-back-slapping, communal-cock-pumping know-nothings.

Would you like to explain just how "the general German soldier" was civilized, cultured and honourable? They read Goethe? They refused to carry out illegal and immoral orders? They felt in any way that them being civilized, cultured and honourable might contradict with them obeying rabid Nazis? And how were "most Soviet soldiers" illiterate child rapists? Do you have some new statistics showing that literacy percentage in Soviet Union during 1940's was < 50%? And of the 29 million men and women drafted into Red Army during WW2, how many did rape children? Obviously you're a racist liar, as merely calling you ignorant fool would be the understatement of year. </font>

Do you think your average, freindly, innocent heart and mind-conquering (?!) allied soldier didn't know about allied atrocities against captured Waffen-SS troops? Or Heer ones for that matter. Or how about the virtually open practice of some US pilots shooting German pilots on their chutes over europe from 1943 onwards? Is your argument that the behaviour of a few condemns all others equally, so long as they 'knew' about it? If so, how incredibly naive. Do you boycott google, knowing as you surely do that it is in bed with the mass-murdering chinese govt? How many other examples would you like of naturally pragmatic human behaviour? "Oh dear, Mr Waffen-SS man, you knew some other Waffen-SS soldiers were murdering innocent civillians/POWs, so you is equally guilty for not protesting (and getting yourself executed for mutiny/sedition)."

Would you like to explain just how "the general German soldier" was civilized, cultured and honourable? They read Goethe? They refused to carry out illegal and immoral orders? They felt in any way that them being civilized, cultured and honourable might contradict with them obeying rabid Nazis? And how were "most Soviet soldiers" illiterate child rapists? Do you have some new statistics showing that literacy percentage in Soviet Union during 1940's was < 50%? And of the 29 million men and women drafted into Red Army during WW2, how many did rape children? Obviously you're a racist liar, as merely calling you ignorant fool would be the understatement of year. </font>

I defend them because the broad majority of them were simply soldiers doing their duty, and those individuals do not deserve the dishonourable treatment that has been inflicted upon them by those motivated purely by spite and resentment at how they were bettered in combat by them.

Seems the Waffen SS were almost as busy as the Allgemaine SS, or SD: http://members.iinet.com.au/~gduncan/massacres.html Have you got examples of Waffen SS facing off the elite Allied Divisions and 'doing better' or are you merely speculating? I'd love to see some examples. </font>

I'm sorry to hear that happened to your grandfather. As in any military force there are always a few bad apples, and the Waffen-SS had it's fair share (probably more than fair actually). Regardless of that, you need to distinguish between the Allgemeine SS (concentration-camp scum) and the Waffen-SS (front-line combatants). Yes, there was an unfortunate overlap in the case of some Totenkopf personnel, but that's an exception that proves no revisionist BS rule. Most Waffen-SS members were drawn by the elite status rather than the overt nazi ideology. They were certainly more influenced by the SS esprit-de-corps than nazism, and it's from that influence they garnered their fearsome combat efficiency, most often in the face of heinously overwhelming odds. Victor's History tried to ensure the Waffen-SS was denied it's rightful plaudits, but current western historians are now giving up on that BS. Books, TV, movies, video games, all feature the Waffen-SS in non-demonic roles. They were, in the main, soldiers just like any other soldiers, fighting for their country and doing their duty, as any soldier should. The fact they did it so much better than any other country's elite force is what sticks in so many peoples' craws.

And he even called Andreas an insecure Russian... </font>

Why not? That's what most western developers have been doing with their games (notably FPS) since year dot. Red Orchestra being a notable example; notable because the developers claim "simulation quality" and "utmost realism" based upon "exhaustive research" (I quote verbatim). Most amusing then that they have the driver sitting with his head out of the transmission inspection hatches on a couple of the German tanks (MkIII and StuG). Not to mention the T34 with it's 500mm armor. CMBB is the first and only game covering WW2 that I have ever found to be unbiased. I wasn't so impressed with CMBO, when a 30mm-armed Stuart, at full speed, took out a Panzerlang through the glacis with a 90-degree shot, but then that was Germany vs the US, so I wasn't too suprised.

There is an old saying in English... "If the shoe fits, wear it". You have expressed opinions, in great detail and with extreme consistency, that are Nazi apologist at best, outright neo-Nazi at worst. If your thinking, as expressed directly by you, doesn't make you fit at least the apologist definition then NOBODY fits it. So it is your opinion that you are being picked on unfairly, it is my opinion that you are being confronted for your views quite reasonably. If you don't like the criticism, perhaps you should rethink your core beliefs. Your options are as follows: 1. Drop the neo-Nazi sympathizing rhetoric and instead concentrate on discussing game stuff (though you seem to find a way of mixing the two together anyway). 2. Go away and hang out with skinheads and find out that you in fact have more in common with their views than you appear to think. 3. Continue to stick to your point of view and therefore continue to attract criticism for it. If you are afraid of defending yourself, then you should try going with the other options. Steve </font>

No, I banned someone who openly admitted that he isn't supposed to be here because he was banned before. I did some research (I have access to a lot of hidden information that Forum member's can't see) and I have confirmed who his real identity is. I also have emails from this individual, know his real name, and home address. He is a neo-Nazi from Australia who has the distinction of making the single worst, offensive, racist post in the 9 year history of this Fourm. And that is an accomplishment I do not wish to see topped by him or anybody else. We went so far as to fill out paperwork to file a criminal complaint with the Australian government (what this individual did was not only repugnant, but illegal under Australian law). And yet we are being criticized for banning this guy again? Perhaps the critics don't know what they are talking about? I doubt that. Every time we sort out the trouble makers we get threats like this from people who don't understand how civil societies, even virtual ones, work. We have rules, fair and simple rules. If someone is too stupid or mentally damaged to follow them, we do not want them here. The majority of Forum members appreciate this too, so every year our customer base grows and the number of idiots trying to ruin this Forum for others shrinks. And that is the way it should be. Sergei, Correct. You are also thinking of the right person, but you have the Forum name wrong. Think of another 1st SS personality. That's part of the pattern. Shmavis, This is why we never delete posts, even the worst ones like the one you apparently found. We want there to be a clear record so Forum members themselves can see that we are fair and just with our enforcement of the rules. Shabe, Nobody has been banned for being critical of our games. I challenge you to show me where I am wrong on this. What you see are people being banned for being abusive and violating our rules. The rules are agreed to by anybody joining this Forum and are SO SIMPLE TO OBEY it always saddens me that some people feel the need to defend such idiots. Note that the rules actively encourage people to be critical of our work, not the opposite. So it is impossible for me to ban someone for breaking the rules if all they have done is criticized a game or even my behavior as moderator. Afterall, if I were 1/2 as bad as you think I am I would have banned Sgt. Popov, Hitori Kyo, and even you. Yet here you are, criticizing me on my own Forum of my own company. How can you reconcile your criticism with this reality? Steve </font>

And he even called Andreas an insecure Russian... </font>

Link please. </font>

Have to say I'm beginning to feel the same way. For some reason I assumed the kind of people who play these tac games were a cut above the usual teenage FPS-whoring retards, but after some of the comments in another thread in the CMBB forum I've revised that assumption.

Dense woods/forests are probably out because they know we'd just lose our men in them. Bit like houses probably, can't be done in a realistic enough fashion to make it bearable for the artistic sensibilities of the devs. Understandable to a point. Shame a little 'transparency/opacity window' can't be made to attend friendly units and spotted enemy units in places like woods and houses.

Shame about the icons and general look of it.

Of course you do, and you don't need to cheat either, because Tripwire have already done the cheating for you.