PS

Churchill Mk III had the short 6 pdr Mk III while the Churchill Mk IV had the longer 6 pdr Mk V. I think there was question on the CMBB forum asking if the Mk III had the longer 6 pdr fitted as an update. [ March 15, 2004, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: PS ]

The early steel core bullet did around the lesser figure while the tungsten core bullet at a higher velocity did about 35mm. This also shows how difficult comparing penetration figures are.

One poss source of error was the way the British named the models: Grant I - M3 with British turret Grant II - M3A5 with Lee turret Lee I - M3 Lee II - M3A1 Lee III - M3A2 Lee IV - M3A3 Petrol Lee V - M3A3 Diesel Lee VI - M3A4 Don't know the total mumber of GrantIs produced but 170 "Grants" were present at El Alamein. Has anyone got a figure and how many Lees were sent to N Africa.

The Churchill Mk Vs were the close support version of the Mk IV armed with a 95mm How and a very bigger muzzle weight! The Mk III had a very nice welded slabed sided turret. British troops in Italy had too put up with all the old stuff compared with the troops in NWE and only got the new much later on. Well the Germans did only devoted about 5% of their war production to the Italian Front but that was of no concern if you came up against a Tiger and you had no 17pdr armed tank to hand! The 76mm armed Shermans just lacked the real punch. On a SPWAW forum there is a posting about the 76mm APCR with some information about 57mm/6 pdr APCR/APDS rounds. 6 pdr APCR might have been used but if they were it would have been very rare. The rarity problem with Grant/Lee in CMAK sums up my comments about lack of research with regards to British armour. If a few of Mk IIIs were converted why worry. The Mk VI, IV NA75 and Mk III 75mm all have the same armour rating, gun etc in the game its not going to matter.

Think you would find that the APCR round were never issued. Could not find out the main reason but CR rounds have poor long range penetration. The APCR were tested in 1942 (have not seen the Ian Hogg book which states October 1943), and the APDS rounds were first used June 1944 in NWE. 6pdr armed churchills were used in NWE (several good books on the Normandy battles have photos) but not very widely. Some units replaced one 75mm tank per troop (or kept one)with a 6 pdr tank because the 6 pdr had better penetration even with standard AP rounds. 6pdr tanks were used more widely in Italy. One knocked out a sunken Panther turret on the Gothic? Line. All the photographs of Churchill NA 75s I have seen were modified Mk IVs. Churchills armed with British 75mm had a muzzle brake fitted so no mistake with a 6 pdr. The NA 75 did not have one but the Sherman mantle is a big give away. Churchill Mk IVs, Vs and VIs were upgraded to Mk VII standard but I have never seen a 75mm in a Mk III turret (less of this Mark were made compared to the Mk IV and poss most were converted to ARV, AVRE or had a Mark IV turret fitted). If the original turret was retained it had the suffix LT after the mark number. Very easy to ID because of the square hull doors, driver vision flap and lots of welded on armour. Have seen a photo of a NA 75 so converted (hull only). The Marks ran from IX, X and XI. Hope this has been of some use and is from memory only so sorry for any slip ups. If anyone would like the sources just ask. I have always found BTS research on British weapons poor from when CMBO was released and the last two games have not been much better. CMBB had very few British tanks in anyway! With no in game editor they will never be fixed. Rune, you said you found a mini game that allows APCR for churchills. Was this SPWAW because this will allow anyone to edit anything in the game.