Thomas Davie

Steve; here is my take on various forms of copy protection. 1) Document check. It's pretty unobtrusive and simple. I don't mind having to type in the 5th word from the 3rd paragraph on the 7th page. But, people do lose manuals. I've lost my Steel Panthers 1 manual and my Battleground Waterloo one as well. What would I do then. Couple that with the fact that manuals are easily photocopied or converted into pdf format....well, it's not much of a form of protection is it? Add in the fact that a doc check can easily be cracked and you ask yourself 'why bother'? 2) CD required to be in the drive. Not quite so unobtrusive as a doc check. Plus I don't want to lug around the CD when I use my laptop. The drives do break down, cd's do get stuck, and the constant wear and tear on the cd's does wear them out. Admittedly very small %'s of cd's go, but I have seen it happen. Steel Panthers 1 was in my 2x drive for 6 months solid. I'm on my second copy now Again, the cd check is pretty easy to crack; why bother. Now, add that in to copy protection method #3 and I've got a real problem. 3) A CD that can't be copied. Talonsoft's West Front is an example (supposedly). I mean, if you can't copy it, the problem is solved, right? Nope, unfortunately I will no longer play a game with the original CD in the drive. So I had to look around for a program that would accurately read a CD sector by sector and copy it slowly, laboriously, tortously to the hard drive, and then burn it. I use the burned copy to play the game with. Oh yeah, the copy protection method that Talonsoft used on the West Front CD rendered it unplayable on some Gateway computers and Mitsumi CDrom drives until a patch was issued. In other words, if you're 'dedicated' enough, the non copyable CD can be gotten around. So who is protected from someone who is determined to steal a piece of software? No one in my opinion Who gets hurt by attempts to protect a company from software theft? The customer....sometimes. Here's something to consider. Most 'warez' groups steal software either in the late beta stage, or as the software is being duplicated for packaging. For your beta testers, why not ensure that each seperate copy has a distinct digital signature? That way, if copies do start to float around, you can tell who leaked the game. For duplication....well, take the master to the company yourself, watch the CD's getting burned yourself, or package them by hand. But even these proposals will not stop your game being pirated if some *sshole wants to. Yeah, it burns me when I pay full $ for a game and some guy gets it for free; but it burns me even more when a game is copy protected in some defeatable manner, I pay full $ for it and the guy stll gets it for free (and I'm left with some minor, niggling problem because of it). Something else to consider; most copies of pirated games are version 1.0 The unpatched version which usually contains some small niggling bugs. Warez groups do not support their 'releases' unlike you, the legitimate company. Require the CD to be in the drive when the game is patched, but not otherwise. The warez groups will not hunt down and patch the patches so they will run without the CD in the drive. Couple that with the fact that you could require 'identical' versions of the game to be used in multiplayer games, and this might help a bit..... If an opponent said to me 'uh, i don't have the 1.03 patch' or 'it won't work', I might be suspicious. Another idea; allow people with a credit card to purchase a digitally signed crack that removes all copy protection. I don't know. And so on.... Sorry for being so long winded, but you can kinda get the idea that I am upset by copy protection in any form. Tom

Well Patrick(?) I guess I'm getting tired of any kind of copy protection in my old age. Literally, it has gotten to the point where if a company is not capable of trusting me, I am not capable of purchasing from them. I don't know. Life sucks....and then another Candian NHL team moves to the er. goddam US Tom

Thanks for the response. No, I wouldn't mind a 600Mb install, and I also would not mind a $4 cdr backup of a game that I would end up paying approx $100 Cdn for once duty/exchange, etc is factored in. You're right, a manual check is not desirable (what if you lose the damn thing?). I'll be honest; I resent being treated as a 'potential' criminal by other software companies, and simply do not purchase from them any more. I understand IF you choose to utilize copy protection, but I wouldn't support it and I do think it would be wrong for a number of reasons. But you have to do what you have to do. I do BEG you not to use copy protection though. Tom

Subject says it all. If copy protection is involved, will it be a document check? CD required to be in the drive? Will I be able to back up my CD that I've purchased? Yeah, it's a can of worms that has just been opened up, but what the heck. Or, is the target audience of the game small enough that you can go with a digital signature? Thanks Tom

-------Bigtime said-------- People need to be a *bit* more understanding about why we do and do not do things. We have always stated that penetration charts would be in electronic format only. The reasons are VERY simple: --------------------------- Fair enough, and I've always been ready to pay more for a thorough game( and I'm not implying that your game will not be thorough, but it today appears as slightly less than I thought it would be). If the manual will not include armour or penetration data can I purchase it separately, or at the least print it out from the game even if I am retarded enough to want the 5000 pages? ----------Bigtime said-------- 1. They have to be displayed in color. 2. There are approximately five thousand different possible combinations of penetration data. ------------------------------ As I thought that there would be when I first daw the specific combination of tank .vs. tank a long time ago A question then: how much hard data will the manual contain? Combat formulas, sighting ranges, morale charts, command radii, weapon ranges, etc? Failing the inclusion of such data in printed form (and although *I* would pay for it, I'll accept that it won't be here)can I print it out myself as it appears 'online'? -------Bigtime said-------- This means we would have to print up a 5000 page, FULL COLOR, book. I would guess it would cost about $200 a piece if we were to do this. To expect this included free in a $45 game is ludicrous. --------------------------- As long as you include the capability that will allow me to be ludicrous then I am happy. But, it is not just a $45 game. There will be, if you are successful at least an East Front, Desert and jungle addon. That's $180 US( $270 Cdn ). I know, I know 'but it's included online in the game'. Well, I appreciate your forthrightness even if I don't like what you have to say, so I guess I can live with it. Tom

-------------------Moon said-------------- I am SURE that SOMEBODY SOMETIME SOMEWHERE will print them ALL -------------------end quote-------------- Damn straight. Sigh, I *knew* this was going to happen. Tom

Andy, I'm guessing that Bigtime won't make, say a 50 mb demo because they don't want people getting mad at them On a good day, I would get 3.5 kb/ sec sustained with my 56k modem, so ~12 mb/ hour. And I'm betting that there are people out there with 14k modems. Myself I had one from Aug/95 till Jan/99 You're right though; people would download anything, even a 200 mb trailer. Just takes longer and longer. I dunno, but if I had to pay on a per connect time basis like a lot of people in Europe, I'd pass though. Tom

Whoa, quick reply. Yeah, technology is fantastic. Considering that I lost everything on my hard drive during the install of the cable modem, I'm *very* surprised that it's taken me less than an evening to download everything that I'd accumulated over a month long period. Well, looking at the qt movies of Combat Mission I don't know what to say. I didn't see what I was hoping for to be honest. I wanted a nice slow moving clear overhead shot and I didn't see one It was too quick and fuzzy for me to form any kind of opinion re: the graphics. HOWEVER; I've never held graphics to be the most important part of a game and I'm not starting now. The gameplay, depth of subject matter, realism, documentation and AI are what do it for me. Even though I've got a 'whizzo' graphics card/monitor combo, I still play CGA and EGA games Nah, I *know* you guys are going to come through; it's just that the most visually apparent portion of your game isn't important for me.... But that is part of the beauty of your game I think....it won't force people to play it a particular way. SO, if there happen to be old fogies like me who refuse to get dragged kicking and screaming into the modern age, why....it will humor us. Tom

Odd, but until I downloaded QT 3.0 I was unable to view 3 of the CM movies. Dunno why, they all appeared as either blank or all black on both Macs and Wintels. Couldn't download em with either a 56k modem or a T1 at work. Just moments ago with a cable modem I was able to view them. Odd. Shrug. They look nice. Oh yeah, grab yourself the Star Bores movie trailer from www.apple.com if you head over there to grab the new version of quicktime. Tom

I'll second the motion for a 'big ole manual'. Having online help or an after market strategy guide in place of a manual is nothing but utter rubbish. It's nice to hear that BTS won't fall by the wayside on this one. Tom

--------Steve at BigTime said-------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :We understand the problems with zooming. :Honestly, I haven't noticed a problem so :far. The reason is that at the angle I :almost always use I can see quite a bit of :the map in any one direct. A quick rotation :allows me to see the rest in any other :direction. Because of this we will most :likely NOT include a print map feature. But :we will withhold final judgment until we :get some BIG maps built! Please, please, please, PLEASE add in a print map function. I plan on playing the game exclusively from a top down perspectivve and have always wanted to be able to print out maps from a wargame to aid in planning. As it is now, it can be done, but is a reasonable degree of bother. Now, a question re: zoom and view of battle field. You've stated that you use a perspective such that most of the battlefield is viewable. Will *I* be able to see most of the battlefield from a top down perspective, or will I have to scroll around, or will a zoom function help Tom

------Steve said----- OK, now I have to break out one of my beer books (did I mention I used to brew ) A traditional "dunkel" beer is just a dark bodied lager. Probably peaks about 5%, which is about 1% higher than a normal Continental styled lager. What you had was more likely a Belgian "Tripel", which is about 6%-7% by volume (or 12%-13% proof). There are very few beers stronger that still taste good, Maibocks being one of my favorites. When I lived in London I once had a Tennents Special Export that was 11.5%, but the taste was horrible. Turns out only the "bums" drink the stuff with any frequency. Go figure ------------------------- You just had to get on talking about Beer didn't you? I'll agree with you that Tripels are generally around 6-7% abv; I've had Westmalle, Westvletern (sp?), St. Sixtus and scores of others. The Belgian beers are usually an acquired taste because of the high percentage of phenolics found in them; quite often giving rise to very strong tastes and flavours. Very few beers stringer that still taste good? Well, here's a partial list Doppelbocks; approx 7.6% abv. Very rich and carmelly. Sometimes earthy in taste/aroma. High in crystal malts. True doppelbocks are decoction mashed, extracting high amounts of melanoidins. Good examples are Paulaner Salvator, Celebrator and yes Sam Adams. Barleywines; these range all over the place from 8% abv (Young's Old Nick) to 17.5% abv (SA Triplebock). These are true beers to the extent that they utilize lager and ale yeast, but they approach and surpass the strengths of even fortified desert wines. Good examples are Thomas Hardy's, Olde Deuteronomy, Old Millenium, Lee's Harvest Ale, Sierra Nevada Bigfoot, Rogue Old Crustacean, Bridgeport Old Knucklehead. Imperial Stouts Adambiers Imperial Porters And others. But damn you, I do NOT want to talk about beer, at least not when my beer run is over 4 weeks away. You like beer eh? Cool. Make your own beer? Even better. Have you ever tried a Lambic or Berliner Weiss? Or an IPA? Aghh....stop me now. Tom

---------post from BigTime-------- If the AI is good enough that markers aren't needed, then there is no point in having them. But if the AI *does* need them, we certainly wouldn't encourage people to NOT use them. They are either necessary all the time, or none of the time. There is no middle ground here. But as Thomas said, the real problem is that AI props (like invisible markers) really become a problem for random maps. Yet another reason to try and avoid needing them in the first place. Steve ----------end post------------- Normally I wouldn't specifically highlight and repeat a post from you But you bring up an interesting point; that of random maps. Quite frankly, I never thought that it would be picked up on, so hat's off to you. OTR, AS! and FC2 don't have random maps in the sense that we commonly think of them; they're free flowing quite fluid in nature. A battle where there is terrain becomes quite another beast entirely because all of a sudden the AI has to at least *have the illusion of being imbued with a terrain awareness*. Quite difficult. Now, as the possibility of hidden flags/waypoints/signposts/etc is raised? Well, that can certainly help the AI give the illusion of being smart, but ti's not the real test of the AI. I can't comment on Sid Meier's Gettysburg, but I don't think it would have random maps. Now, and this is straying off topic, but there is a game called Warlords 3 arklords Rising. Roughly speaking, it's an operational/strategic wargame with a fantasy bent. Set piece maps, campaigns AND random maps. So what? Well, IMO it has a sparkling AI, one that becomes readily apparent on random maps. 3 levels of play, with the AI cheating on none of them. So, good AI is possible and on random maps too. Of course, tactical ww2 combat is infinitely more complex, esp when you consider that combat in WL3 is resolved on a stack .vs. stack basis. I could be wrong, but I think that the SP series had waypoints. Haven't played any of them in a while though. And of course the waypoints are non existent in a random game. Tom

**When I think of what Victory Locations should NOT be, SP is one of the games I keep in mind** This is the truth. The AI suffered from what I call 'the dog in heat' syndrome. It would pursue objective hexes to the point that it wasn't in my opinion worth replaying. At least not .vs. the AI I hope that you manage to avoid the use of 'invisible' markers for the AI for the reason that you mentioned, as well as the fact that I see no way of implementing them in a random map. Not to mention that this would just be partially obscuring a poor AI. There's probably no on else on this board that would echo my stance, but if you can't do the AI decently, take another year....or don't bother. But I'm not worried; I think that BTS will make a good AI, one that is tactically sound w/o fudging. Tom

Geez, what the heck can I say? I've got a couple of friends (one with a Mac, the other with a Wintel) who are NOT on the net. I guess they, and by default me are out of luck? Will I be able to set up machine 2 machine networks and play? Thanks Tom

I was discussing CM with a friend from work, and he asked me if the game would support multiple monitors; Mac or IBM. So, I told him I'd ask for him. On my IBM I just bought an MX300 soundcard from Diamond Multimedia. It's 3d this, surround that, multiple speakers outputs, etc etc. Will the gane have any support for advanced sound systems? Thanks Tom