DavidFields
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Posts posted by DavidFields
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"objective hex"--I sense someone who has been at this gaming for awhile.
Crossing the tank to the center, without smoke is, I think, a challenge. I do think I was too timid in my attack--2 or 3 platoons at the leading edge.
Your second paragraph is about the Kalinin scenario, I believe. The "answer" is to keep the T-34 in the sparse woods. A platoon of them at the base of the lake is a winner. (This scenario had me squinting at the terrain, to determine what was sparse woods.) It may have been Russian doctrine to lead with the tanks, but I have it drilled in me the opposite--infantry ahead spotting. The german Mark-IV is my favorite AFV--as a realistic work horse.
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I agree with Ron.
My guess, Redwolf, is that you work in computers or programming? Your prose is difficult for me to parse.
But for BFC to do anything to help us play CMBB--when it is in their financial interest, at least at first blush, to bury it so as to force people to buy new games--is admirable, and the kind of thing which make me applaud. My guess there gesture is out of sentimentality.
Frankly, if they charged me $50 to make CMBB compatable after Windows 7 comes out this fall, I would pay. (per my Moonshot thread, I am still hanging on to Windows XP)
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Kalinin Raid: I actually enjoyed this most as German. Granted, is is most difficult as Russian (and I enjoyed that also). But I was impressed that the designed developed the road as an important issue. Seldom have I seen a high quality road used as an important issue (and the Stukas were a bonus--also had to use them in in a scenario effectively)
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Yes, the famous....different combat delay pause traffic jams, in the Kalinin campaign. I don't know whether to master it, or to wait for CM2 to solve it rationally...it will, won't it?
The first attempt I had with the Kalinin/Moscow road was only a draw. Won substantially as Russians the second time.
In some sense, I have almost a moral objection to some scenarios. In this sense: if the absolute winning tactic is to push one's armor ahead of the infantry, does one do it. I have a hard time--almost nauseous when I try it "blind"--the first attempt.
Back to Viipuri, I can see trying it again. But I need to give it a rest...has been too traumatic.
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Thanks...but after Vista?....I don't know if I can get all the scenarios done in time.
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You may think it is silly for me to be posting and talking about such an old game. But I am having some pre-grief anxiety. Sometime over the next few years, something is going to force me off Window XP and likely make this game unplayable.
There will be better simulations. Maybe CM2. But we have already been warned, and I think it is true, that the conditions which produced the persistence and expertise to produce a product with such a wide scope of operations and unit depth.......likely no time soon.
CMBB/CMAK were moonshots. And to torture the Apollo analogy, the fact they were produced with weak computers (relative to what was to come) and documented by grainy graphics, does not significantly diminish the accomplishment.
[Frustratingly, I will likely never play the huge Crimean Campaign which once was linked to this forum, or the CC type improvised campaign with the core unit and complex inter-battle calculation.]
[Yes, I am one of those of the taste that, even in CC, the scope of the Normandy campaign, with regard to units and tactics, seems....much less interesting than 1941-1945 Eastern Front]
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Well, now I see the basic problem with my initial approaches. I was trying to take the church first...and I did it....once. That is when I lost a platoon distracting the middle trench. I thought I had to do that to get the AT rifle. But the fire on the two squads who made it was tough. The platoon comander behind the trench..... The unit in the woods at the back of the cemetary....I feel as though I know these guys.
Right to left instead.....I can see going back to this one again to try....but maybe later. (But first, can I just send that enemy Company Commander a poisoned letter, and be done with him....yikes he is tough.)
Vark, the diceness of CM is intriguing, I think. Makes it more like poker than chess.
(The Kalinin/Moscow scenario is interesting. I like the way the scenario designer worked the map so an AI German would perform well--lots of trees help the AI infantry. But it again reminds me of why I like infantry scenarios with a couple of AFVs better. Interesting how many of the 1941 scenarios on the original disc are Russian attacks......)
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Heinrich505. Excellent. Yes, a turn 1 smoke barrage does not give enough time to get troops in place. The counter-attacking in this scenario was astounding (?programed that way.) To get in the church, did you also have to attack the center trench to distract those troops? I lost about a platoon doing that...as they sneaked toward the enemy when under fire.
Ok, again, I admit there are some betters her (I assume everyone is on EFOW). Can't imagine giving the AI +CEB on this one.
Now, hold onto your chairs....I just won 82% to 18%....and I don't think I need to prove it, once I tell you the slimey way I did it.
1. Use the smoke to move the AFV to the right flank (sliding under the bottom of the hill)
2. Move not a single Finnish soldier.
3. Pound everything on the right flank with the AFV. I went after the Company commander for awhile, but that may have been a waste of time. There seemed to be a bunch of fleeing Conscripts I could attack behind the lines.
4. Get next to the flag on the last turn (not a variable scenario....perhaps this strategy was under consideration?)
5. Axis points for casualties 74. Allied's; 16. The flag's points are split.
Granted, this is REALLY GAMEY. But, it does show one realistic point, which we all realize: squad anti-AFV was terrible for the Russians at this point in the war. I did not even have to reload for any successful hits (my AFV backing up persistently was more annoying)
It would not be long before an AFV with 15mm of steel would be unable to potentially terrorize a dozen Russian squads.
Ok..off to defend that Kalinin/Moscow highway
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I must have played this scenario more than 10 times, with at best a 60/40 loss. (This is when I pushed my AFV forward so that no one owned the flag.
I am just about to move on....one last question....did you use your smoke on turn one, as a pre-planned barrage, or on, say, turn 3?
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As for similar scenarios, I nominate River l'Elle (or something like that) in CMBO: a puzzle, tactically demanding, mostly infantry, with wide infantry movements.
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Since all of us seem to actually enjoy this level of detailed tactics analysis.......
1. When I try the scenario again, I likely am not going to try to move a squad down that brush lane on the right--even though it looks so tempting. I never found that to be useful in all my attempts..... Again, the left hook looks appealing, but I found I could not keep my squads concealed, and make any sort of speed. The scenario is intricately designed--traps on both flanks.
2. I was also impressed at how undominating the Crack sniper was.
3. Did either of you find the Stealth attribute useful? Do you think it lowered your casualties assaulting through the initial smoke? (Or did you just go with the + Combat platoons for the initial assault?)
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Smoke.......brilliant. I clearly underuse smoke. In this case it is perfect, since, otherwise, indirect fire produces little damage with the well dug in, or housed troups.
I am very impressed. My sense was that going through the church was the best route, as it makes a lot of enemy units irrelevent (their indirect, the AT gun, and units on the right flank), but I could not find the key. Yes, I noted that the steppes terrain allowed some units to get close, and that the conscripts would break quickly in that event, but.....again, impressive to understand how to redeploy the AFV, and get the Finns infantry to the church/trenches.
I presume Tagge, you had enough left for an assault on the objective building? To completely school me, how did you manage that final push?
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"Crete 41, France 40", as mentioned in one Battlefront.com posting. Oh, yes...and can we talk about Poland?
As an old PanzerBlitz, PanzerLeader (Tactics II...was there a I?), person, I can't seem to "get into" CMSF. Playing Russian armor in 1941....love it.
I realize....I sympathize....that CMBB was utterly traumatic to produce.
But a long time from now, if it could still be played, as the Mona Lisa of simulations.
You may do something equal. And the technology may help with bells and whistles, but unless you do a simulation of 5 years of war, with huge tech changes, you are unlikely to do better.
And, as I think you have said, your families will, perhaps legitimately (as a physician, who hears this) will not allow you that path.
But...........aren't you the least bit tempted.....a CMBB on CM2 scale (let the throwing of things in the office begin)
An Historical accomplishment?
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Vark: the tank barrel across to the right? Mine was knocked out anytime I tried that.
Tagge: Details would be interesting. I suspect that center, at the church, is as important as advancing on the right flank. And you had enough to take the final objective building? Pray tell.
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I give up.
It is on the original disc. Finns against the Russians (August 41--I am playing CMBB/CMAK in historical order).
Even playing non-blind (surrendering after each turn and looking at the positions), I can't, as the Finns, crack the Russian line. Not even the first line--sort of gave up when I saw there was a whole platoon and two MGs even at the flag). I searched, and the discussions on this scenario are too old too find. (just some more recent threads, also disheartened).
I am now re-acquainted with steppe terrain and its characteristics. I have played with suppression fire from the Maxim MGs.
Let me guess: There are some demi-god players from Finland who can win this? Pray tell, how?
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Right, Tux, I don't really have time for a game......but I can dream.
But my dreams wouldn't be any better than this AAR....again and again, the tension is amazing. And, I doubt you would mind, I want to give some kudos to your opponent for being willing to "play along". Win or lose, it can be a bit unnerving to think about everyone watching, and commenting, on one's play.
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I have never done PBM (using the old terminology, since Play by Mail goes back to when I was playing chess by post-cards, and board games by checking stock results)but Tux, after this, if you could guide me through it, I would be interested in a match, preferably a not a QB. [My interest being early war battles]
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Hmmm....as to the original point, I would have thought one of the main reasons to make an opponent deploy early, other than delay, is to increase wear on both men and machines.--non-combat attrition being a significant component of losses.
As to whether artillery is more effective on troops in columns or troops deployed, would anyone ever turn down a chance at troops in columns (unless it would prematurely spring an ambush)? Just the morale and disorganization effects make it valuable.
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When playing against the computer in an Operation, to get it to perform best one picks "place own units", not "scenario default"? Correct?
I don't want the computer to just get a wad of bunched units after the first battle. (on the other hand, I usually pick the scenario defaults with battles, figuring the scenario designer has sometimes, when designed for AI, placed the units well.)
Correct?
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[sorry for second post. I can't figure out how to edit]
Since I was so incorrect with my impressions 1/3 through this battle, I will just ask questions:
1. In the coming Russian attack, to what extent is killing Germans (with good loss ratios) important, versus taking or threatening the flag?
2. I would think in an ME, attacking is a disadvantage (particularly when the AFVs have long effective ranges, making isolating part of the map unlikely). Why then, with position on the flag, and in cover, would the Germans have attacked? Why not wait to possibly get a chance at Russian units in the open, moving, unclear where the enemy is? Or is the pounding from the IS-2's simply too damaging to take?
[Ah...now this thread is going to get me to go back into CMBB, to attempt 21st Counterattack, which has thus far eluded my ability to concentrate enough on]
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Wow.
Wow.
I have been away for more than a month, and let me count all the ways I was wrong and Tux was correct.
1. TFB proved to be extremely useful, distracting a Tiger and a bunch of infantry. This, perhaps, set up the only-single-Tiger charge in the middle.
2. For the first 10 turns, it looked like the Russian unit quality was High School, versing pro-quality Germans. How could the Russians EVER possibly do well, I thought.....oh....looking more promising now.
3. I knew IS-2 were good (though I mostly do early war scenarios). But they don't have the "hot" sound of "Tiger". But I see that moved carefully, in a pair, to a good position...
4. I thought JasonC was essentially always correct on tactical matters. But I disagree with the idea of pushing Tiger on the flank. Not because it did not work this time, but because there was inherently too much risk in bogging/infantry trap/flank shotted, even if the Tiger got the Sherman. With that AFV, especially in these conditions, it would seem to me that less movement, and keeping the Tigers central, is the stronger move.
Watching you maneuver, Tux is interesting....it is not just the position, but the psychology.....inducing people to do less than perfect things [reminds me of a chess analysis on a line on the Sicilian Defense "white will find the temptation to attack the king side overwhelming, will do so, and will lose".]
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Really, someone there has a past connection to AH? Do you have an old "Tactics II" still in some closet somewhere? Jutland? Luftwaffe?
I absolutely agree with the strategy...for the survival of Battlefront. It is the only path which will allow me to pay......$500....$1000.....for the entire Eastern Front war. (happily, and it would be a bargain) Because, that is not the current pricing scheme. You are going to give it to me in pieces.
Oh...and my guess, absoulutely a guess, that "Bagration" will not be in the title of your new game--at least not prominently. Even I, who moved around CP markers in Panzerblitz (ah...the days before Opportunity Fire) find it obscure
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Not surprisingly, I agree with Der Alte Fritz. But I will never win a lottery, because I won't play. And I am very infantry oriented.
But....Courage...
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First, I applaud your spirit. Some people, when seeing their opponent pick Tigers go into whining mode. Chin up. [i now wait for you-know-who to declaim how non-interesting big cat battles are.]
Secondly, you have plenty of time. Chip away? Let him make a mistake?
Third: remind me the value of the flag, please. I always like to remember this is not "keep the flag and win". It is quite possible to expend too many points to take a flag.......or the reverse. You have more AFVs,..... so you have more shells? More AFV MG ammo?
Not Another AAR?! Tux Vs Mylgas 2: Double Or Quits
in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Posted
Spectular AAR.
I still have the feeling, despite the even points, that you were fighting uphill against better quality troops the entire time--AFV for AFV, and particularly infantry. This is not to flatter you. If your opponent had not pushed the Tiger forward, or the Panzershrecks had hit on the final turn, I think you would have lost--and I don't see what you could have done differently. (His final defensive position looks impregnable--it would have been Pickett's charge if you would have tried to crack it.)
Perhaps it is just a function of the time-period?