GaMaX
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Posts posted by GaMaX
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Or one airplane.Originally posted by Wicky:You you will need at least 3 platoons of IS-3s for the allies
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And, Michael, please note that currently units are instantly unloaded from transports. They just suddenly appear unloaded.
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Actually, pause would depend on transport class of unloading units.
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I said "no long delays", not "no delays". Of course that truck (or halftrack, tank, etc) unloading units would wait certain amount of time depending of type of the units. And it would be very realistic.Originally posted by Michael Emrys:How realistic would that be? It takes a while for troops to disembark, especially if they need to unload weapons, ammo and other gear.
[ October 05, 2003, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: GaMaX ]
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And how about "unload passengers" order? Could be very useful for trucks. Then you could move along a road, leave passengers where you want them, and speed off to some cover. No long delays. In combination with "follow road" it would make life a lot easier.
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There will not be many roads in CMAK.
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Hm, I wonder how would people react if I repost this joke, but replace "Italians" with "French" and "CMAK" with "CM The Blitzkrieg Years".
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No, it shows how lazy reader you are. Read the entire thread one more time.Originally posted by GATT:BTW, your post is first stupid then offensive. It shows how much ignorant and insensitive you are.
Did I ever question that? You got it all wrong.Originally posted by GATT:Hundred thousands italians fought and died in horrible conditions in Africa, Russia and Mediterranean Sea theatres of war.
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Do you think that Italian soldiers didn't die in WW2? Around 350.000 IIRC died during the war.Originally posted by Newbtler:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Of course, this is a joke. But, it's very dark humour, because that order is not necessary, Cetniks and Ustashas never took prisoners. WWII was VERY bloody in Yugoslavia, over one million Serbs died, most of them in Ustasha's death camps (as Jasenovac) and pits (all around Dalmatia).]
Did you mind thinking that I could be offended by your "surrender" jokes, just because I could have had some relative who died in that war?
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Fine, excellent, I agree. Obviously lowered moral depends of region and date. In CMBB we have South, Central, North and Finland. In CMAK could be something like that. And option to lower moral for any nationality in some specific battle is also good idea.Originally posted by Berlichtingen:Ok, last try...
Ok, let's build a battle, in which one side is, say, a battalion of Italians. Ok, now let's play around with dates and such...
But lowered moral don’t have to be solution to problems Italian army had. That was my idea, my proposal. If somebody has different idea, please say it.
Anyway, I’m not making the game, so all this is a little bit pointless.
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"Throwing up" was a joke and got it. I even laughed. But than came another "joke", which clearly wasn't one. Both were "jokes" without "Originally posted by Newbtler:Gamax, you pretend to be a joking man, an hilarious man but then you get offended by just a joke I made (and not about you, mind it).
The "throwing up" thing was a joke, sorry I didn't post the "
", but I thought you could get it. ". I will always put " " or " " next to my joke to make sure that people understand that it is only a joke.I don't understand why all Italians are offended with my idea of lowering moral of Italian army. That is a historical fact. Italian army never won a major battle in WWII. I'm sure that they had some heroes and bright moments, but as a whole, Italian army had some serious problems. I just wanted to represent that somehow in CMAK. Please don't blame me for that.
Of course, this is a joke. But, it's very dark humour, because that order is not necessary, Cetniks and Ustashas never took prisoners. WWII was VERY bloody in Yugoslavia, over one million Serbs died, most of them in Ustasha's death camps (as Jasenovac) and pits (all around Dalmatia).Originally posted by Newbtler:If I would now say that I think that ALL Serbs, Croats, Cetniks, Ustascia etc should get in the next CM game (but they won't be there unfortunately) a "Kill all the prisoners, cut their throats and amputate them" order, would you be offended?
Nooo... No way man, I'm 100% sure you are a guy with a sense of humour and you would get it as a joke.
Understand?
But you can't lower command delay of Russians. And that is fine, because Russian army of that time had its problems. I don't know if this offends Russian players.Originally posted by Newbtler:What I REALLY like in the Combat Mission series is the big options we can have playing it.
This is almost the first game ever to let you decide and create a scenario with your options, like a group of Russian "veterans" against "green" Germans in 1941.
You can raise or lower their morale, get them weakened or not, etc etc.
Italian moral penalty would be just that. Italian soldiers suffered of poor leadership, poor equipment, poor food, lack of enthusiasm to fight, etc. They're not COWARDS.Originally posted by Newbtler:The Soviet delay command is just that: in the first years of the war they take more time to plan artillery etc, but the fighting infantry fires the exactly same number of rounds as the enemy and they fight as any other humans. They're not DUMB.
At least we agree of something.Originally posted by Newbtler:THIS is the real war-game.
And I'll repeat: I don't have anything against Italians. If I offended anybody with my joke, I'm sorry. I just hope I didn't offend anybody with my serious proposal, because it still stands.
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Ha! Really?Originally posted by Dave H:Just remember that there is very low tolerence for national insults (real or perceived) on this forum.
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That was cheating. I said guess!Originally posted by Romulus:I have just looked at your email address. You should be from the "former" Yugoslavia, now known as Serbia and Montenegro.
One insult after another. Way to go Romulus. I never intended to insult anyone, but if I did, I’m really sorry.Originally posted by Romulus:There is no need to go to the WW2 in order to find a mass-surrender by your country.
If you allude to NATO bombing when you say mass-surrendering in my country, I’ll remind you that we were bombed because we didn’t surrender, not vise versa. And, of course, because we had crappy politicians running the country... But Serbs almost always have crappy politicians.
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Hey, was that an insult?Originally posted by Newbtler:Another one of these guys like Gamax, and I'm gonna throw up. ( just preparing a big cup near my computer for the future...)
But, you know what? I really am for one of those countries that never surrendered!!! :eek:And Gamax, if you are from one of these countries of semi-God-like humans that never surrendered , just tell us, it would be great to know that there REALLY are uber-mensch out there.But we are really not "uber-mensch". Guess which country is that.
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No, you are not right. And, please, don’t be stubborn.Originally posted by Berlichtingen:How do longer command delays bare any relationship to your belief that Italians should surrender more often? Command delays are based on equipment, doctrine, etc, while your surrender idea is based on situation. (btw, what makes you think the Italians don't have longer delays?). To single the Italians out for this is just plain insulting to them.
Absolutely no need for this. Make them weakened or exhausted conscripts and start them out panicked, and you get the result you are looking for (and also a scenario that's about as exciting as Jabo to play)
You say that that command delays are based "on equipment, doctrine, etc". That could be true for artillery delays, but it's certainly not true for command delay of a single squad. Why should soldiers in Soviet squads need more time to react than German soldiers. Are they morons. Certainly not!
The truth is that BFC tried to SIMULATE command structure of Soviet army in that time. That's why all Soviet units have increased delays, although that's not really fair, as I said before. Someone not familiar with CM could interpret that as insulting to Soviet soldiers who fought bravely to save their country. The same way you are misinterpreting my idea about lowered moral of Italians.
There is simply nothing insulting about in my idea. If someone gave me a rifle and told me to fight for Nazis my moral wouldn't be high either.
Now, with my idea to reduce global moral of Italians I tried to SIMULATE problems in their army: poor leadership, lack of motivation to fight, poor equipment, etc. And yes, these problems are only Italian problems. Other armies had different problems. But here we are talking about Italians. My solution might not be the best solution, but that's what this thread is for. Making them "weakened or exhausted conscripts and start them out panicked" is not what I am looking for, because you can do that with any army, and I want something that will distinguish them (just as with Soviets).
And for the last time: "Surrender" order was only a joke (that only one person in this thread understood, as it seems). My idea was to do something about mass surrendering of Italians in WWII.
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No, you are missing the point. In CM you are playing relatively even battles. In history, the Italians fought well in relatively even battles. So, there is NO justification for a surrender command. None, Nadda, Get it? </font>Originally posted by Berlichtingen:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gamax:
No, Berlichtingen, you are missing the point. It doesn’t matter WHY Italians surrendered. They did surrender, and that’s what matters.
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Well, in '41 KV heavy tanks were also indestructible, but Germans reached Moscow.Originally posted by xerxes:Now the bad thing is, the Matildas are almost indestructable. The Italians won't win this one.
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Oh, finally. Somebody with the sense of humour.Originally posted by Mike:Oh I dunno - I reckon a "surrender platoon/company/battalion" command would be fine for the Italians.
We could match it with a "Surrender fortress" command for the Yanks and the Brits, an "Evacuate the Island/Continent" command for the Kiwis and Brits, a "leave the whole damned theatre" command for the Aussies, "Surrender the army" for the Russians & Germans, and so -on....what's the actual problem here??!!
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No, Berlichtingen, you are missing the point. It doesn’t matter WHY Italians surrendered. They did surrender, and that’s what matters.Originally posted by Berlichtingen:Ok, let me spell out the point...
The Italians didn't surrender because they were Italians. They surrendered because they were screwed.
Of course it has nothing to with the fact that they were Italians. It’s just as with Soviet longer command delays, nobody is saying that Russian soldiers are less intelligent.
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The US Army practiced "Marching Fire" (Patton even recommends it in his memoirs), which was the formation of a skirmish line and an upright advance towards the enemy. The use of semi-auto weapons made this more plausible than the use of bolt action weapons; but a Soviet wave armed with SMGs in close-in terrain would have been something rightly to be feared.</font>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gamax:
With "Surrender" soldiers at least stay alive, but with "Human wave"...
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That was my point. I just said it in a strange and interesting way.Originally posted by Ant:Well whatever happens I've got confidence that BFC will get it about right, they haven't done a bad job so far. I do think that the Italians should have some sort of penalty though, similar to the Russian one in CMBB. It's a fact that the combat performance of the Italian army in general in WW2 was abysmal, they failed at just about everything they tried and couldn't even defeat the Greeks. That's not to criticise the average Italian soldier, there are many episodes of individual heroism. It's usually the fault of the command and/or equipment when an army performs so badly, just look at the British surrender at Singapore, or the French defeat in 1940
But, if somebody thinks that my idea of Italian "surrender" order is an insult or degradation of Italian soldiers, than please tell me what you think of "Human Wave"? Trying to scare off enemy by yelling!!! Isn't that humiliating for a soldier. Fighting by yelling?! With "Surrender" soldiers at least stay alive, but with "Human wave"...
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That's the second dumbest thing you've posted in this thread!Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gamax:
but it is a historical fact that Italian soldiers in WWII surrendered a little bit too often.
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It’s just as with Russians in June / July ’41 in CMBB. They have increased command delays, longer artillery delays, they have only conscripts, greens and regulars, while Germans have regulars, veterans and crack troops. Simply, Russians are inferior to Germans in every way. The only things that saves them are T-34, KV-1 and KV-2 tanks. Without these tanks it would be impossible to play and win a battle with Soviets in CMBB in those early months. That is my experience.
It is clear that Italians must be somehow weakened in CMAK, as they had similar problems in Africa as Soviets did in ’41. And I meant this "Surrender" order as a joke, not a serious thing.
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How many soldiers Italians had in Africa? How many soldiers (for example) British had in Africa? How many battles Italians won? How many battles British won? And finally, prisoners: How many of those soldiers ended in prisoner camps?Originally posted by Zimorodok:what, exactly, constitutes, "a little too often"?
Zimorodok
And what about Sicily? Who fought allied troops attacking Sicily? Germans or Italians? If I'm not mistaking, Italy changed sides after defeat at Sicily.
[ September 30, 2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Gamax ]
CMBB Easter Egg
in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Posted
Wicky, surely you have larger picture of the masterpiece.