[Why do players not want to change from CMx1 to CMx2]

Fascinating discussion. This is the first time I‘ve ever written in this forum, though I’ve followed it daily for months.

I was first turned on to PC war games with the Close Combat series. Then came Combat Mission, and I thought I had died and gone to heaven. I was hooked, and spent countless hours immersed in the CMx1 experience. After that I drifted, sampling ToW and CMSF among others, but none of them grabbed me, and I reverted to board games for a decade. Needless to say, I the arrival of CMx2 was anticipatedwith great excitement – I checked the website constantly, pre-ordered, and counted the days until it was released.

Now that it’s here and I’ve played for a while, I’d have to say that I like it, but don’t love it. Whereas I couldn’t get enough of CMx1 and played it every free moment, I can go for weeks without playing CMx2. Somehow it’s...just…not the same. Of course it’s not the same game, that’s not what I mean - it’s not the same experience, it doesn’t create the same feeling, the same excitement – it’s not as fun.

[Note: I always play WEGO against the AI – just like I did CMx1.]

I don’t mind that CMx2 is different than CMx1 – what disappoints me is that in important ways it’s not as good. Things that should be easy – that were easy in CMx1 - are difficult (or impossible) in the new game: it should be easy to read terrain, to see the contours of the land, to tell the difference between a shrub and an impenetrable hedge row; it should be easy to find friendly units on the map, to alter their paths, to know what they are shooting at, and what their status is; it should be easy to pick out and occupy a sturdy Norman farm, knowing its stone walls will provide cover. In CMx2, things are hard that don’t have to be: ambushing a tank with a bazooka team; making a squad fire through upper floor windows; having a spotter with a line of sight call in an artillery strike; moving a tank to a hull-down position.

Paradoxically, aspects of CMx2 that are improvements over CMx1 make it less playable, less enjoyable than the older game: the lush, dense foliage makes it very difficult to find friendly units, so I play with trees turned off; the more realistic spotting rules make it harder to know who’s been seen, who can see what, and what they are firing at, if anything; calling in indirect fire is so exquisitely realistic and complex that I’ve just about given up on it.

I don’t mind learning new key strokes; I don’t mind that the camera commands are different; I like that the game is more challenging, that the AI beats me sometimes. What I don’t like is that the system itself is often an impediment to game play, it gets in its own way (and mine), inducing frustration and making CMx2 less fun than the original.

The arguments that I’ve seen on this forum that “it’s waaay better than TOW because…”, or “we’ve already dealt with this issue in the CMSF thread...” are meaningless to me: I never played those games because I didn’t like them.

I do like this game, I appreciate the creativity & support provided by Battlefront, and I plan on buying all the expansions to fill my steel box. I’m rooting for Battlefront’s success - no one does WWII tactical war games better than they do. I just expected CMx2 to be better than it is.

Wow! This post sums up my feelings exactly - it's what I've always wanted to say about CM1 vs CM2 but couldn't find the words. Thank you Navigator 37 for what is, IMO, the best comment to date regarding this game. I'm a fifty year old wargamer that absolutely loved CM1, and want to love CM2, but like you can go weeks without playing it. It's work, not fun.

[Reviews?]

How come I'm not seeing any reviews for this game? I find it odd, especially since it's a sequel to one of the most highly acclaimed games of it's time. Not that I need affirmation from an "official" source to tell me that this game is pure gold, but in an age where reviews usually come on the heels of a release this one has me scratching my head. Did Battlefront not send copies to major review sites? They must have known this game was going to be a sure winner, so why not maximize it's exposure and get glowing reviews to enhance it's release? Any ideas?

[Errors in movie Battle of the Bulge (Henry Fonda version)]

The entire movie was an error - it would be easier and much more efficient to list things that were historically accurate (it would be a very short list). Having said that, why doesn't Battlefront include rolling flaming barrels of gas as an allied weapon? Maybe could be added in a patch I suppose.

[Your three best and three worst things]

+ 1 to 1 modeling of infantry. This IMHO is the biggest positive. I now care about my troops and the immersion factor is huge.

+ stacking of commands

+ relative spotting

- no armor only arcs

- no command lines showing whether units are under control of their HQ

- no movable waypoints

[My Steelbook experience]

Wow. When I come across a post like this it makes me think of this comic routine. It's hilarious and very timely for this particular rant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk

[Time for a Tips And Tactics Forum?]

Yup, I agree with every word and such limited knowledge that I have acquired I am more than happy to share. I have already started on a couple of articles for the S & T forum, assuming it gets off the ground.

What gets my goat is when people want answers to game mechanics stuff but are not prepared to look at the CMSF forum, where they can find the information they seek, because they didn't buy that game.

I'm prepared to look wherever I can find answers, but for me it's a matter of efficiency. Why wade through a forum that pertains to modern warfare to discover tips and tactics that apply to WW II warfare? If the answer is that it takes a lot of work, effort and money to come up with a new sub-forum, then ok. As far as I know, that isn't the case, but maybe I'm wrong. Game mechanics wouldn't be the only thing in a tips and tactics forum.

[Frustrated with the camera control]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I have a Logitech gaming mouse with side buttons so will try to map camera controls to it. I know it doesn't do any good to whine about the cumbersome camera controls so will do my best to adapt. Any chance a talented mod maker could completely revamp this system so as to make it intuitive and not such a pita? How about a mini-map that one could click on to instantly move the camera to that position (I've read somewhere that there are games that exist that actually do this - lol)

[Frustrated with the camera control]

Played the hell out of CM1 back in the day, along with it's expansions, and after a long hiatus I'm delving into CM2 and loving it, except I don't remember being this frustrated with the camera controls. I know it took awhile to get used to it when I first played CM1 and maybe that will happen again, but man, there has to be a more efficient way of getting around the map.

My question for the more proficient players out there is: What method do you use to get around the map? Do you use hotkeys? Keyboard? Mouse only? Or a combination of all those? It's the only real hangup I have about this game (apart from the lack armor only target arcs and no more command lines to show if your units are connected to HQs). I would love to hear some tips that will make my gaming more enjoyable. Thanks!

[Amazing things you've seen]

I was amazed to discover that while playing the tutorial mission at the firing range in Devon, that there were german tank crews hiding in the woods next to the dummy practice tanks. I proceeded to shell the hell out of them

[A lot of old timers coming back]

It does feel good to be back. I was so disgusted that battlefront was charging five bucks for a patch to play CM1 on windows 7 that I refused to give them a dime for shock force, but can't resist the lure of a WW 2 based sequel.

[Special edition manual question]

I'm wondering if the only way to get a printed manual is to pre-order the special steelbox edition? Will a printed manual come with the post-release "normal" version? Very much looking forward to this game!

[Making a copy of the downloadable version]

Thanks for the reply Hubert. Just as an aside.... I played the original SC way back when, but life took me away from it (marriage, kids, etc). I stumbled upon the demo of your latest version, and was blown away by it. It was so much fun and reminded me why I enjoyed the original so much. I'm very much looking forward to downloading this and want to thank you for the all the hard work you've put into it.

[Making a copy of the downloadable version]

I'd like to get both the downloadable and hard copy version of SC GC, but when I saw the $10 shipping fee I hesitated. I am wondering if it is possible to make a disc copy of the downloable version, given the DRM that comes with it. It would save me 20 bucks and I can always print out the manual.

[Battlefront charging money for a patch??]

You've got to be ****ting me. After all the money I've spent on your games you have the audacity to charge me five bucks for a patch? Stay classy guys.

[Battlefront toolbar]

It's malware as a matter of fact. Tom Chick describes it best as a "browser hijacking advertising scheme". Why a small company like this would package this with a demo is beyond me. All it will succeed in doing is driving away customers, this one included.

[Iraqis Burn Bush Effigy Where They Beat Saddam Statue 5 Years Earlier]

Have we always been the Great Satan? I thought we used to be the Little Satan and the USSR was the Great Satan, until they went belly up.

I get confused with this stuff as well, and it only gets worse. We now have The Chosen One as our leader, so how does that square with us as being the Great Satan? Does that make The Chosen One the devil? Or are we now The Shining City on the Hill with The Chosen One as Our Beloved Leader? It would have been so much simpler if McCain would have won.

[What happens when the big 3 are gone?]

I'm of the opinion that the root cause of the big three's problem was the quality of their product. I grew up in a "Ford family", and the thought of buying a foriegn car wasn't even considered a remote possiblity. However, several Ford cars later I got fed up with bad transmissions, faulty fuel pumps, and poor workmanship in general and finally took the plunge and in 2001 bought a VW TDI Jetta. After 135,000 trouble free miles I just wish I had done it sooner. I think a lot of americans had similiar experiences to mine and although Detroit has recognized their quality contol problem and by and large corrected it, it's too late. I just think americans wouldn't mind spending a little more to "buy american" if the car they were buying was of the same quality as a foreign made car, but they got tired of buying **** and started buying Japanese cars. Just my two cents.

[Playing nice when it comes to real estate]

Real estate agents are nothing more than used house salesman. Don't waste one second of sleep over it.

[So where are we after about 3.5 months?]

Originally posted by tooz:

Redwolf has a great suggestion. Anyone listening at BFC?

This is somewhat snarky, but after this experience I hardly think BFC listens to their former fanbase. They created and sold a game they wanted and thought was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, several months later the forum for their creation is dead, a sizable number of their followers (me included) are fifty bucks poorer while their creation languishes on our hard drives, and their "too bad if you don't like this game but it's becuase you don't get it" attitude instills in me a sense of schadenfreud that causes me to care less what happens with CMSF and care even less about the fortunes of BFC. They got my money and I got a broken crappy game.

[VOTE: the best improvements over CMx1]

My wife happily gives 10 points to the overall suckiness of the game as I had warned her before it came out that I would be spending all of my free time with it (based on my addiction to CMx1). Silly me. Because I "don't get it", I spend my time doing honey-do chores instead (more fun than CMSF). I'm in the process of preparing her for Black Shark and Spore. I just hope I'm not jinxing those games like I did this one.

[Old School WEGO Long Live Gary Grigsby!]

Mech Brigade - still one of my all time favorite games. I got Flashpoint Germany from Matrix thinking it would be similiar, but it doesn't have the same appeal.

[Is this game any good?]

Originally posted by chanss:

What you people think about it? I have not bought it as of yet

Well, since I "don't get it", I'd say don't waste your money, but those out there who "get it" will tell you that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Your best bet it to play the demo, see if you "get it", then make your best judgement - good luck.

[PC Gamer UK Review]

Originally posted by Battlefront.com:

Since there hasn't been any NEW perspective on CM:SF's launch for about 4 weeks now, this review doesn't bother us a bit. We keep our eyes focused forward, not behind.

Steve

Let me get this straight: A game that has been in development for 4 years gets panned, but that's OK because there hasn't been any NEW perspective in 4 weeks since it's been released?

Arrogance? Denial? Who knows, but for those who enjoy this game my hat's off to you for "getting it". Battlefront, we hardly knew ya. It was fun while it lasted.

[Poll only like or dont no rants or comments]

No

[Gamespots crappy 4.5 review..]

I think gamespot nails it. I'm so disappointed - not just in the game, but for the fact that I have been waiting patiently what I thought would be a stellar game building on the best of CM1. This game is not in any way "fun" the way that CM1 was. Maybe with time it will be sorted out, but I doubt it. I wish I felt differently after playing CM1 to death, but it's just my opinion.