Sgt. Beavis
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Posts posted by Sgt. Beavis
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Hehehe... The autocannon firing an auto shot of HE in that game was lots of funOriginally posted by Mike:I doubt CMBB will model this, but who remembers loading ammo into the autocannon & heavy cannons in X-Com??
I used to love those weapons!! 
The problem is that in the first few missions your trusty soldier had as good a chance of planting an HE round in the back of the squad leader's head as he did killing the alien he was aimed at Argh I can't tell you the # of times a missile launcher guy or the autocannon user missed his target and had the round (s) blow up right by my soldiers. Only the best and brightest to save the earth
Someone else mentioned they should improve the game engine, and I definitely agree. Throw in lots of new tactical details, improved graphics, AI, teamwork, squad LMGs, etc.... Or an improved version of Soldiers at War. I need to start a software design company
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I think it will be lots of fun to play using the early war stuff.
I don't know a whole lot about the light and medium tanks of June 1941 though. I am under the impression that the BT-7 series were actually pretty decent tanks, along with the T-26 tanks. Perhaps someone can give me some detail about the strengths and weaknesses of them?
I also think it will be interesting to make use of all the 20mm autocannon tanks the Germans had. A bunch of Pz-II tanks facing BT-7s. Might be an interesting situation. Of course, pitting the Czech series tanks the Germans were using, along with Pz III and IV tanks against the BT-7 and other Russian tanks will be an interesting matchup as well. At least in terms of armor, firepower, and mobility.
I am aware that the Russian designs were limited because of poor ergonomics within the turret, and they also suffered from command and control problems, so I am wondering how everything will play out within CMBB.
Anyway, I'm excited thinking about the new game, so I had to type and release some energy.
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And make sure the vehicle MGs will jam too, just like the manhandled ones.
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oh and by the way, Seph.... Don't worry too much about what some of the people on here have said about you. It is perfectly ok for you to post what you did, and to ask questions. And...*gasp* to question things about CM.
It is kinda like being Jesus, and standing before the Pharisees at times, but just ignore the loudmouth people on here who will sometimes say "Well, Steve said so" or "do a search" or some other nonsense. Say what you feel, only with the caveat of not being insulting or posting totally off the wall comments... Sort of like the completely stupid and useless Peng threads that are all over this board. But no one will complain about those, even though they have nothing to do with CM, WW2, or history.
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As for the 105 mm firing at the HQ, yes, that is retarded. Sometimes infantry will be out in the open, 1 or 2 guys left, and HE can land all around them and they survive. If they are in a forest, that shouldn't matter much. Their experience level shouldn't matter either, unless you think that elite troops have bulletproof foreheads. Perhaps not all the guys should die or be wounded, but they should be broken... and they should not come back easily, if at all, within the time frame of a CM battle.
I agree with JasonC when he says that there are usually better ways to use the ammo. However, it still is annoying when you target a group of guys, 3 or less, with HE, and it is nearly impossible to knock them out (kill/wound) without expending 20 million rounds, when previously it only took 2 or 3 to kill the other 7 guys in the squad. Pretty much the only way to get rid of them completely (since even regs will almost always rally within 2 or 3 minutes after taking 80% losses and start firing at your guys again... which is quite far-fetched and not in keeping with reality) is to charge in with bayonets, hand grenades, and rifle butts.
The number of guys left should not matter. It was exceedingly rare to target individual opposing soldiers. You would do area fire into a location the guys were in. Therefore, just because there is only one or two guys there does not mean they are virtually impossible to hit. For each guy in that squad, there is basically an equal chance to be hit by incoming fire, regardless of how many of the squad members are left. The game seems to calculate hits based upon the numbers of men in the squad that are left.
And I would tend to think that 20mm autocannon fire is a bit too ineffective against infantry. Use of 20 and 37mm autos against ground targets was common and pretty nasty for those it was being used against, based upon the things I have read and heard about those situations.
By the way, I love the game. I greatly repsect the time and effort BTS has put into it. So there. But it is not perfect, and it is interesting to think about how to make it better. Of course, I understand it will never be perfect, but it's a unattainable goal worth aiming at.
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I like JasonC's idea of global morale having a mid-range effect of basically calling a particular battle a draw if the attacker loses too much. This would add a little more variety and realism, instead of the global morale only coming into play when nearly everything on one side has been wiped out.
At some point before declaring the attack broken off, a sufficient decrease in global morale should increase command delays, make troops more brittle to enemy fire, etc.
Of course it should be made optional, so that those who dont want to use the system don't have to.
I myself would make use of it, but at times I would turn it off, if I just wanted a quick fun game against the computer for example. -
It really is a lot nicer to play with the greenies and conscripts. There is a minimum of the fight to the death syndrome common to regulars and above. I'd suggest that all the new CMers play with greens/conscripts in order to have a more realistic gaming experience. I have seen a few new names cropping up around here, so I thought I'd bring it up... In addition to trying to start a mini tournament of sorts.
Everyone who thinks playing a game or two with greens or conscripts is the way to go, email me. I am currently locked in mortal combat with JasonC. He has been expounding upon the greens and conscript play for a while, and I think it's a good idea.
** BigAlMoho, if youre around, I'm sorry about the game from about a month ago. We didn't play that one out. I will send a new set up to you if you wish to try another.
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I'll play a game with you using greens or conscripts.Originally posted by JasonC:I think that beyond moaning about it to the world at large, perhaps we should get a group of like-minded CM players together and play a series or some sort of tournament using all "low" quality forces. With "green" the more experienced setting, and plenty of "conscripts" around too, and no fanaticism.
I am sure at the least some funny anecdotes would come out of it, and we might find the fighting more realistic. It would be a change from the "all veterans, all the time" QBs, at any rate.
Any takers? If there are enough people who agree that "play green troops" is the secret to realism in CM - which I am partial to myself - then we should be able to put something together and show it.
I think that using them is much more realistic. However, I still would be happier if the regs had their "fight and die" mentality toned down just a bit. And I would also like being able to kill the last guy in a HQ or MG team without having to expend 10,000 rounds of ammo
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This is also true, I agree.Originally posted by lcm1947:I certainly agree with you but I also realize that if BTS programmed it this way it wouldn't be as much fun. I mean it is a game and while we want it to be as realistic as possible and it is damn good, there's a line between making it completely real and boring. My 2 cents for what it's worth.
But I think that in this narrow aspect, the simulation has swung to far into "fun" and not enough of "realistic." I think it needs to move a bit more towards realistic, in that regular troops will have morale failures faster and more often. Just my feeling and opinion; in a lot of games a squad will be down to 3 or 4 guys, and they're still firing away. For veteran, crack, or elite troops, that is understandable, but for regulars, it should be rare. I think if this is implemented people will just have to be a bit more cautious with their guys, while using regs, or below
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You are correct, using Greenies or Conscripts will help solve the problem...
But regular troops still have a huge amount of... Elan
More than I think they should have in the game. And the last guy in a MG or HQ unit is still difficult to eliminate, without using a huge amount of ammo. Argh
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Ok, some of this has been touched upon by others and myself, but I wanted to create a new topic and go over it again.
I think that regular troops have too much of a die-to-the-last-man phenomenon. Say you have a German motorized squad of 10 men. It is fairly common to play a game and see that squad down to 3 or 4 men, still firing back at the enemy. Now I can understand that happening once in a while, but it is fairly common in the game. I have always read that 40-50% casualties are considered extreme, and the units involved were basically combat ineffective.
Basically I think units should panic, break, and rout once they are at 3-4 men out of an original 10 more often. Once they do, it should be extremely rare for regular troops to come back into the fight (i.e., they should be broken, etc. for the remainder of the game).
CM is supposed to be a simulation, and it does many things very well, but this particular aspect is not realistic; having regular troops sustain such high casualties and not break... or break, and then come back to the fight 2 or 3 turns later.
The related morale issue is that of platoon HQs and machine gun teams. It is very common to see a MG team down to 1 or 2 guys out of the original six, manning their gun, firing back at the enemy. Same with a platoon HQ unit. I have had situations where 1 guy out of 4 in an enemy HQ unit was left, less than 100 m away. I had an entire platoon of infantry firing at this one guy, and he wasn't suppressed. He was merrily firing away at my guys, inflicting casualties. Uh...no way. And this happens quite often. Platoon HQs and MG teams can take huge volumes of fire without being suppressed, much less dying.
One guy, immobile with his MG, will happily take large amounts of fire, not be suppressed, wounded, or killed, and return fire. C'mon now...it is not impossible but it shouldn't be common in the game, as it is now. There were not many Audie Murphys and... SS Totenkopf super-soldiers, immune to fear in real life. Those that tried usually didn't live long. That one guy left out of 6 in the MG team would have dropped the gun, pooped his pants, and ran off the battlefield.
As it is now, they never leave the gun. They will fire back with 84% casualties. And good luck trying to kill that last bastard. You could have a battalion of infantry and 2 tanks throwing HE at him, and he won't break or die. Unless you want to use up all of your ammo, you have to charge in and stick a knife in his gut. Of course, this lone superhero will cause one or two more casualties to your troops before he is finished. I don't quite agree with that.
Anyway, I had to vent a little
Seeing these heroic last stands all the time while playing through a battle gets old. They were very rare in real life. -
Maybe someone can explain to me why, when I started my own thread, which had nothing to do with Seanachai... and was completely useless, just like this thread... he jumped in, said something quite inappropriate and uncalled for. I came in here, posted another silly message. You know, nothing horrible, just to see if he has a weird sense of humor or something. Then he babbles like a stupid monkey about banning me again.
So what everyone in this useless thread is saying is that unless my member number is under 2000, or so, I can't post in the Peng thread. Or I can't make up my own stupid, useless thread. Christ almighty, I have sinned at the BTS altar. Ban me now... lol... I follow this silly, stupid thread with some interest now. I can't wait to see an official reply.
I enjoy trying to understand irrational behavior. It's quite fascinating to peek into the minds of the mightily stupid and insane.
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kinda interesting how some were so successful. obviously luck has a big part in it, but there must have been some key element. Good positioning, the ability to read the land and find a good spot, good communication between the crew members, and good coordination between all the other neighboring tanks. A combination of all those things, I'd say.
I'd be interested in hearing about more Allied tank aces. Everyone talks about German supermen, in tanks, or aircraft, or submarines...
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Seanachai...how old are you? 12?
You are getting all pissed off about my silly comments in my own thread, and now this one. That is really funny.
Go ahead and report me, BTS will see you are the first to have said something. Something quite rude and inappropriate, in fact. I'm not the better man, and couldn't refrain from responding, but I am the more intelligent one. I'm also not gay.
Go lick Peng's nuts. By the way, I don't think most people value your opinion over mine. No one knows you, or cares about you, you stupid twat. The same can be said about me, but I don't base my importance upon this message board. This is a COMPUTER. Not real life. So go ahead, get even more angry at me, I think it's hilarious.
Peng, peng, peng... pengachichiachachahahah.
Of course, I don't want to offend anyone else, just Seanachai. I thought it would be fun to jump into things and create some other useless, stupid Peng thread. But I guess it's not permissible to just be silly and post nonsense like everyone else because my member number is too high. Lol..you ****ing retard, Seanachai. You're funny.
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I think Peng and Seanachai are gay lovers.
My Peng thread is cooler than this, all the rest of you need to step it up another notch. There's a new guy in Peng-Land.
And I'll challenge any of you to a game and wipe clean your troops from the digital battlefield. Bwa ha ha.
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Seanachai is a big, stupid butthole. and his mom's a slut.
er.... what's your problem? you must think youre soooooooo clever, when you create your own Peng thread. Well mine's better. I fart in your general direction.
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57 mm poop is better than 37 mm poop. But 88 mm poop was quite a bit more devastating. Even that though was nothing compared to 128 mm super long range poop. The kind that destroyed even the thickest TP. heh heh heh... heh heh.
Corporal...like, the men need new underwear, and stuff. We've gotten fired at, and we're scared and sitting in poo poo undies. Fire...fire... die, fartknocker.
And bring some boobs too. Boobs rule. heh heh heh...heh heh. We're gonna score after all the poop.
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Large caliber HE hitting a tank should cause some problems. Not just exterior damage to guns and and sighting equipment, but to the crew inside. The concussive force would be immense, especially when we start talking about 150 mm HE shells. The crew inside would not be feeling too good after that shockwave washed over them.
Maybe not killed, but definitely stunned, with ruptured eardrums, or knocked unconscious...
And there is the potential of just knocking the turret off the tank. Someone mentioned that earlier. I would think that's quite possible, given the explosive power of the large caliber shells. I've also read about it happening in various accounts
Within CM, it would be nice to see HE hits on tanks having the potential to knock out a vehicle, even if it doesn't penetrate the armor.
The crew inside would be turned to mush. And if the tank is unbuttoned, a TC should have a good chance of being killed when the tank is struck by a large HE round. It's unrealistic for a hit to take place, and then for the TC to just duck back inside the tank. I don't think he'd be functioning after such an event and capable of buttoning up.
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Thanks for the responses and info, panzerwerfer, michael, and panzerkampfwagenI. It is appreciated.
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I know they considered the MG42 to be a "heavy," because of its high ROF. But I remember reading somewhere about 12 or 13 mm MGs that they mounted on some of their aircraft.
I'm wondering if these (what are their designations) were used with ground forces as well. If they weren't, why not? Surely the Germans must have noted that the .50 (which is about 12 mm as well, right) was very effective against light armor.
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edited.
[ March 07, 2002, 01:09 AM: Message edited by: Sgt. Beavis ]
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Just out of curiosity...
Lt. Bull, what kind of engineer are you?
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Well it's true they go to ground, but so did the entire squad initially. So why is it so easy to kill 90% of them, but the last 10% is so difficult to finish off?
I would agree with Gyrene...It seems there is a probability to hit based upon the number of men in the target receiving fire. While this makes sense, perhaps it should be modified a bit so that there are fewer happenings of the last MG gunner or squad members dodging bullets or multiple rounds of direct fire HE. It seems a little unlikely that a single guy in a field would not be injured, rendered unconscious, or killed by lots of HE fired at him, along with MG fire. Especially since the other members of the team were offed so quickly by the same direct fire.
In the game you will often choose a target, but in actuality this is just doing area fire. Your guys are not aiming at individual opponents, they are aiming at the general location of the enemy. Therefore, the probability to hit one guy or 10 should be roughly the same. The main variables are cover available and the incoming firepower.
This isn't a huge deal, but at the same time I hate watching one guy out in the open sitting there and saying "neener neener, you can't kill me no matter what you do. I require a tactical nuke to be dropped on my forehead before I die."
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It seems that when a squad is reduced to 3 men or less, it becomes very difficult to hit the last remaining guys, particularly when they are in a building, but it even happens out in the open too. It is somewhat frustrating to spend so much ammo over a period of a few turns trying to get the last few guys when you have just wiped out the rest of the squad in just a turn or two.
MG teams also seem to exhibit this. The last guy in the team can be very difficult to eliminate.
I'm wondering... Has anyone else noticed this?
I used to love those weapons!!
Armor at the Beginning of Barbarossa
in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)
Posted
The fact that it had an auto trigger and semi-auto trigger was a surprise. Rather interesting idea. I simply thought there would be just one, that could be depressed a few times to fire semiauto or held down for full automatic.
As for the Pzgr40, I am not sure, but I thought the Germans had fair number of tungsten rounds in the first couple years of the war. If that's true, we should see it come up fairly often in CMBB, in '41 and '42.