Dr Dan

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Seanachai: Sure! Or go off and sulk about not being declared God. When the Developers and any number of fellow players take the time to explain why thye feel your request would unrealistically affect game play, why they would personally not wish to see it enacted, and why they think that it would make other compromises on reality even more unrealistic, and you maintain that you still want the game's code reworked to give you this feature, I think you've earned a nap, and perhaps a time out! Oh, I'll add a smiley so we know my sense of humour hasn't been negatively impacted. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think you misunderstand me. If you CAREFULLY read all of my posts, I think you will find that I have no desire for Godhood and that I greatly admire the developers of Combat Mission. It doesn't bother me at all that CM will not include what I request; rather my sadness derives from a perceived lack of civility, which your post regrettably confirms. Do you ever wonder about the number of potentially good ideas/contributions that are lost because 'Lurking' is a far easier way to "participate" than wandering into the "flames." CM is a fantastic game now; it will undoubtedly get better. Why would anyone go sulk, when there is so much fun at hand. Peace and Goodwill to all. Dan

Well, this is certainly fun, isn't it? I sincerely suggest what might be a useful added feature (yes, I agree it would be a feature) and am repeatedly informed that my thinking is flawed, or that the request might as well have been to add space aliens to the game. Kinda sad. I have to admit that the arguments against adding this feature seem rather arbitrary, with certain pieces of unrealistic information deemed acceptable and others taboo. Its O.K. if BTS chooses to design the CM world that way, but IMHO it is NOT flawed thinking to consider that it might be presented in a different way, especially in a game that simulates, but does not display, even its own "real world." <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: I'll leave this discussion open for now, but it needs to be stressed again that a anywhere LOS tool will not be introduced for ingame use. PERHAPS for setting up and in the Editor, but NOT for use during the game. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hey now, this IS interesting. Actually, having such a tool during setup would be GREAT! Would you consider turning it back on (briefly) to help in deploying reinforcements, which in many ways is like setup? Setup and deploying reinforcements are the two times in the game when things can get complex and tedious, because you really want to try to "do it right" (and units are often far from where they need to be). During the rest of the game, adjusting unit positions seems to flow naturally from the action, with the existing LOS tool pretty much providing the information needed. Anyway, GOD (the Deity of your choice) decides how many Angels can sit on the head of a pin. It probably ends up being an entirely right-brain activity meaning we can't discuss it further here. Can I sleep now? Dan [This message has been edited by Dr Dan (edited 09-02-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: As I've said to Dr Dan, it would be impractical to prevent you from zooming around a map. This is a necessary compromise. Adding an LOS tool would be a new feature, and one which has no basis in reality.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Why is it impractical to prevent you from zooming around the map? Currently, it is possible to play completely in '1' view, switching between units using keyboard shortcuts. Well, that's not realisic either is it, since you shouldn't be able to even SEE some of your units? You readily accept one compromise in the interest of gameplay, but just as readily reject another. Neither has a basis in reality, both exist to make the world of the game more accessible. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> In other words, you're looking at information the game gives you which you shouldn't really get at all, and requesting that you be allowed to measure it more accurately. Flawed argument, I'm afraid. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Flawed in what way? This is a GAME. It exists in a virtual world that already makes numerous compromises (of reality) in order to be playable, as well as function on current computer hardware. I am not asking that the world be altered in any way; I am simply requesting a tool that would for many, I believe, make the game more fun/easier to play. One MIGHT argue that having ANY LOS tool, even from your own units, is flawed and yields too much information. Further, why should we be allowed to give precise movement orders to our units? And, what commander tells his troops EXACTLY whom to target? It really boils down to which compromises you are willing to accept. I appreciate your desire for the most realistic experience possible, although I'm not sure taking on the role of a true commander in the field would be much fun. This tool that some of us would like is simply an additional compromise, one that aids us in interpreting this unique world know as Combat Mission. Even if such a tool were added to the game, you wouldn't be required to use it. I am not trying to ruin your game, just seeking to enhance the one I play. Hey Weasel, others, I KNOW I am not alone in requesting this -- I think the division is between those seeking the purest possible approximation of reality (very slippery slope!) and those who want to play and don't mind having some extra "tools" in the game. Thanks for jumping in. By the way, IMHO, the things that make CM so attractive to the average gamer (no offense intended to the grognards) are its infinite variety and its accessibility. Strict realism, without ease of use, would render the game too esoteric. Of course, that's why CM has such an simple, yet elegant interface already. Dan [This message has been edited by Dr Dan (edited 09-01-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: Sure, in reality, you wouldn't get nearly as good a feel for terrain you haven't visited as you do in CM. But this is a compromise for the sake of gameplay, and a lot of what you see is still a matter of opinion. You should certainly not be able to take a tape measure to the map as though it were a model in front of you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I guess it all comes down to compromise with BTS having the final say in how the CM world is constructed. However, bearing in mind that it IS still a game and an approximation of something real, what is wrong with making scouting a little easier - i.e. making a different compromise to enhance gameplay? Is it really any less realistic than the other compromises made? Besides, isn't the goal to have fun? Dan

In order to totally eliminate "gamey" tactics, wouldn't it be necessary to play all games from '1' view, issue all commands using a "virtual" radio (or hand-signals, etc), rely on a topo map, and learn about the battle from whatever your spotters tell you? Wouldn't many of your troops and tanks live and die without you ever seeing them in combat? Etc, etc. On the other hand, striving for certain standards of play, as well as trying to be "historically" correct is an admirable goal. Isn't the important thing to remember that this is a game? Shouldn't the goal be to have fun? This sure is an interesting game, played by lots of interesting folks. Dan

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phoenix: It's completely unrealistic to be able to go and prescout a LOS before you move the unit there. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But don't we all prescout locations, using whatever methods are available - e.g. different views, etc. You don't just move your units at random, you select locations to respond to threats, advance toward objectives, and so on. There is a plan, with destinations ALWAYS PRESCOUTED. (An exception would be games played entirely using the '1' view - that IS realistic) I completely understand the desire for realism and uncertainty; however, as good as CM is at simulating the "real world" it still is an approximation with compromises to make it playable. One of the limitations is that what you appear to see looking across a map does not correspond to what you actually should see. The feature I am asking for allows the player to "see" what the true terrain respresents. This is actually quite realistic; eyes which deceive are replaced with "eyes" that see in a manner better suited to CM's current world. I like this game a lot. I'm merely trying to find a way to deal with an issue which limits that enjoyment, much as the tank targeting problem drove many of us to the edge . Maybe somebody can suggest an alternative. I know, how about special glasses that translate from the abstract mathematical domain of the AI to human vision! Charles do you do hardware? Dan

Rotate. Or is nobody interested in this topic?

Hi all! Before getting into the "flaming stew", I would like to say that CM is the best computer game I have ever played. Actually, it may be the best piece of computer software I have ever seen. Certainly, BTS employs the finest customer service model around. Yes, I have been assimilated. Frustrated, he comes out of Lurker Mode. I DID perform a search on this topic, noting some discussion pro and con, but I'd like to revisit it anyway. I would like to have a point-line-of-sight capability added to the game - i.e. the ability to click at a place on the map and extend the line-of-sight "line" (analogous to the way sight lines are checked from units). I realize that such capability is considered by some to be too "God-like," offering the player more information than a real commander would have. I would agree except for the "unreality" that necessarily exists in the world of the game due to the limitations of current computing power. To wit: 1. The 3D Map is NOT WYSIWYG. Thus, for example, I cannot set my view to "1" and look around the way a real-world commander might and expect to see what is really there. How can I know that the "woods" that I can clearly see through to that enemy tank, make it impossible for my units to target it? On maps with lots of trees it can be enormously frustrating trying to determine proper position. 2. The AI can see perfectly because it uses the true map in abstract mathematical form. Actually, this may be as close to "cheating" as the AI comes. It has quite an advantage over a human player. Just watch for a few minutes as the AI finds that tiny bit of land that your 10 carefully placed, cross-targeted units cannot reach. Note: The AI SHOULD be so capable; I merely want some help trying to catch-up. I am finding it increasingly tedious to play certain scenarios/operations, especially those with numerous areas of woods/tall trees/scattered trees, as well as lots of little terrain "bumps" etc. If large numbers of units must be directed, we must either have very long turns or make lots of guesses which need subsequent correction (if the units are still alive). You did a beautiful job fixing the Tank AI targeting issues. Cursing due to errant Tiger Turret Swivel is way down. Now, can you please help us see better too? Yep, its definitely a vision thing. P.S. Sorry for the fatigue induced error - I want better SIGHT, not better SITES (most of which are actually very nice) Dan [This message has been edited by Dr Dan (edited 09-01-2000).] [This message has been edited by Dr Dan (edited 09-01-2000).]