Wesreidau
-
Posts
457 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Never
Posts posted by Wesreidau
-
-
My god Hiram, that's an amazing score.
I think Hiram may have gone through suck and out the other side! I think Hiram may be some quantum kind of suck.
I expect to start seeing people with scores of over 100 when playing Hiram.
Of course, the right minded person would say this is impossible, but Quantum Suckage Theory shows that it is not!
I think Hiram may have reached critical mass, where suck particles are bouncing off each other contained with in his body, and are even as we speak boiling away like some constant internal fusion reaction.
I really think someone should do some more work on this theory. I'm sure Heisenburg comes into it all somewhere.
meanwhlie. back to me work.
PeterNZ
[ 04-26-2001: Message edited by: PeterNZer ]
-
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Horses - here you are way off. I agree that there were not many cavalry charges on either front (and none I can think of after 1943 on the Western front), but they were used in the early war years, particularly by the Russians. The horses were actually not engaged in mass charges, but used in about the same way Gen. Buford used them in the American Civil War - ride your horse to the battle, then dismount and fight. I would imagine they could be treated that way in CM. See the above suggestion for cycles for implementation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
no.. not ... the horses.. debate.. again..
i believe coding was part of the issue.
the other part was that .. or arse to it, it's all in the huge other thread on the debate. ..
PeterNZ
-
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Horses - here you are way off. I agree that there were not many cavalry charges on either front (and none I can think of after 1943 on the Western front), but they were used in the early war years, particularly by the Russians. The horses were actually not engaged in mass charges, but used in about the same way Gen. Buford used them in the American Civil War - ride your horse to the battle, then dismount and fight. I would imagine they could be treated that way in CM. See the above suggestion for cycles for implementation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
no.. not ... the horses.. debate.. again..
i believe coding was part of the issue.
the other part was that .. or arse to it, it's all in the huge other thread on the debate. ..
PeterNZ
-
I don't see what's more mature about providing a page of rules compared to a quick '1500pt, light woods, hills, town' type game setup.
People don't buy kubel waggons because they don't have guns
. I think i do pretty well finding players (mostly 'poolers, hehe), but as I see it the only reason to include them would be to simulate certain special scenarios. Might be too much effort to include them for this goal. But so be it if it is, just make 'em costly. Same goes for Jeeps, KWs and trucks in my mind.
PeterNZ
-
I don't see what's more mature about providing a page of rules compared to a quick '1500pt, light woods, hills, town' type game setup.
People don't buy kubel waggons because they don't have guns
. I think i do pretty well finding players (mostly 'poolers, hehe), but as I see it the only reason to include them would be to simulate certain special scenarios. Might be too much effort to include them for this goal. But so be it if it is, just make 'em costly. Same goes for Jeeps, KWs and trucks in my mind.
PeterNZ
-
ASL Vet
are you saying the bike was used at the front along with footsoldiers to advance on enemy scout or MLR positions?
Because that's what CM covers really doesn't it?
I guess if you made a 1x3km map you could kinda simulate a force fully scouting out and bikes sitting back with a pair of binoculars.. but in the scope of just about every CM battle i have ever played I don't see how a bike in it would fit?
If you have some CM battles where you think 'a bike would be perfect in here' let me know!
While Aufk. TOE had bikes in them and they scouted around with infantry, what did they do when the shooting started?
I'm not too sure myself, so i'm open to persuasion, but I don't think they were involved in the intimacies of tactical combat... But i could be wrong
PL:
Stick 'em in there at 150pts and i'd be fine with it
Scenario designers can get creative then. Their roles with guns? I imagine as some kind of anti aircraft support. Also in areas like France and the East to scare off any partisans. That's about it.
You've convinced me on the possibilities of interesting scenarios. So stick 'em in there if there's time. Just make them cost a ton
PeterNZ
[ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: PeterNZer ]
-
ASL Vet
are you saying the bike was used at the front along with footsoldiers to advance on enemy scout or MLR positions?
Because that's what CM covers really doesn't it?
I guess if you made a 1x3km map you could kinda simulate a force fully scouting out and bikes sitting back with a pair of binoculars.. but in the scope of just about every CM battle i have ever played I don't see how a bike in it would fit?
If you have some CM battles where you think 'a bike would be perfect in here' let me know!
While Aufk. TOE had bikes in them and they scouted around with infantry, what did they do when the shooting started?
I'm not too sure myself, so i'm open to persuasion, but I don't think they were involved in the intimacies of tactical combat... But i could be wrong
PL:
Stick 'em in there at 150pts and i'd be fine with it
Scenario designers can get creative then. Their roles with guns? I imagine as some kind of anti aircraft support. Also in areas like France and the East to scare off any partisans. That's about it.
You've convinced me on the possibilities of interesting scenarios. So stick 'em in there if there's time. Just make them cost a ton
PeterNZ
[ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: PeterNZer ]
-
Actually, i am in the camp that thinks trucks/jeeps/KWs aren't really needed in the game either
While i agree they make interesting units (ambushing a supply column with partisans for eg), I think i would just see them so regularly it would be annoying.
I guess i'd be happy to see them in there if it didn't mean BTS wasn't doing them insetead of, say, trenches. Also, if they were in there they should be VERY expensive to encourage their use in scenarios rather than Quick Battles.
While i could of course, just stick with people who only play a certain way, or demand rules, i much prefer just to go for it in a battle and trust the engine and the forces available to be selected to produce some kind of realistic result..
perhaps I should be more demanding of random opponents?
PeterNZ
-
Actually, i am in the camp that thinks trucks/jeeps/KWs aren't really needed in the game either
While i agree they make interesting units (ambushing a supply column with partisans for eg), I think i would just see them so regularly it would be annoying.
I guess i'd be happy to see them in there if it didn't mean BTS wasn't doing them insetead of, say, trenches. Also, if they were in there they should be VERY expensive to encourage their use in scenarios rather than Quick Battles.
While i could of course, just stick with people who only play a certain way, or demand rules, i much prefer just to go for it in a battle and trust the engine and the forces available to be selected to produce some kind of realistic result..
perhaps I should be more demanding of random opponents?
PeterNZ
-
You mistake my meaning PL.
By operational level scouting and patrol I mean when a btn sits down on a hill then sends out a couple or three half squad that spends a few hours at an OP out infront of the lines or engages in denial activities to enemy scouting units.
I have never played a scenario like this, and don't think it would be much fun and don't think CM is really designed to handle it very well. (one half squad vs. another half squad on a map wouldnt be that amusing).
What you're refering to as a ME is what might be considered a meeting of two Aufk. type forces. Light armor, supported by infantry scouting out the enemy's line.
This CM does handle well.
Furthermore, as has been convincingly argued elsewhere the whole ME thing is a bit ahistorical. More likely is a scouting force of one side meeting the defences of another side and the pulling back and waiting for the cavalry. I imagine it was fairly rare for the scouting forces of two sides to engage, (unless you have two armies marching across the land to engage each other and the fight isn't over a static front line)...
Yet, again, in the scouting units BMW motorbikes weren't used, as I understand it, in front line combat.
HTs and armored cars were used profusely, and hence make it into the game.
I'm sorry my point eludes you, but it is quiet simple.
- motorbikes weren't used in the combat CM simulates
- therefore there is no point in wasting time on including them.
PeterNZ
-
You mistake my meaning PL.
By operational level scouting and patrol I mean when a btn sits down on a hill then sends out a couple or three half squad that spends a few hours at an OP out infront of the lines or engages in denial activities to enemy scouting units.
I have never played a scenario like this, and don't think it would be much fun and don't think CM is really designed to handle it very well. (one half squad vs. another half squad on a map wouldnt be that amusing).
What you're refering to as a ME is what might be considered a meeting of two Aufk. type forces. Light armor, supported by infantry scouting out the enemy's line.
This CM does handle well.
Furthermore, as has been convincingly argued elsewhere the whole ME thing is a bit ahistorical. More likely is a scouting force of one side meeting the defences of another side and the pulling back and waiting for the cavalry. I imagine it was fairly rare for the scouting forces of two sides to engage, (unless you have two armies marching across the land to engage each other and the fight isn't over a static front line)...
Yet, again, in the scouting units BMW motorbikes weren't used, as I understand it, in front line combat.
HTs and armored cars were used profusely, and hence make it into the game.
I'm sorry my point eludes you, but it is quiet simple.
- motorbikes weren't used in the combat CM simulates
- therefore there is no point in wasting time on including them.
PeterNZ
-
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soddball:
A complaint of "Gamey tactics" should not preclude what was clearly a widely-used widespread machine (if production figures are correct
Motorbikes with sidecars would be FUN.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
While they would be fun, i agree (mostly for setting up stupid race course maps hehe) they are still pointless.
I believe the spoon was also produced in very large numbers during the war (I don't have figures on hand...
) yet we don't see it in CM. Why not? well because they really had no impact on front line fighting.Some of you may argue the spoon was crucial to the war. I agree! Without spoons, heaven knows how folks would eat their puddning. That kinda frustration can take it out of your average Landser.
But for CMs scale (not being an eating sim) there is no point including the spoon.
same for motorbikes. Yes, lots were produced. Mostly they were used for messegers, and escorting generals around. they weren't used by front-line infantry companies (the above example comes from a tiger Abteilung Iimagine, these guys are not exactly your average front line troop and the bike was probably just grabbed and used for a while).
Furthermore the exception proves the rule, as they say. I am sure I could find an example of spoons used in combat too, doubt it would persuade you or BTS to include them.
If you are looking for a fantasy game, i suggest you try elsewhere. The goal of BTS has always been to create as realistic and historically accurate game as possible (despite the players), for this reason (due to the lack of bikes in front line combat), I very much doubt they will be in CM2.
Perhaps they can join me in my spoon wars game.
PeterNZ
-
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Soddball:
A complaint of "Gamey tactics" should not preclude what was clearly a widely-used widespread machine (if production figures are correct
Motorbikes with sidecars would be FUN.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
While they would be fun, i agree (mostly for setting up stupid race course maps hehe) they are still pointless.
I believe the spoon was also produced in very large numbers during the war (I don't have figures on hand...
) yet we don't see it in CM. Why not? well because they really had no impact on front line fighting.Some of you may argue the spoon was crucial to the war. I agree! Without spoons, heaven knows how folks would eat their puddning. That kinda frustration can take it out of your average Landser.
But for CMs scale (not being an eating sim) there is no point including the spoon.
same for motorbikes. Yes, lots were produced. Mostly they were used for messegers, and escorting generals around. they weren't used by front-line infantry companies (the above example comes from a tiger Abteilung Iimagine, these guys are not exactly your average front line troop and the bike was probably just grabbed and used for a while).
Furthermore the exception proves the rule, as they say. I am sure I could find an example of spoons used in combat too, doubt it would persuade you or BTS to include them.
If you are looking for a fantasy game, i suggest you try elsewhere. The goal of BTS has always been to create as realistic and historically accurate game as possible (despite the players), for this reason (due to the lack of bikes in front line combat), I very much doubt they will be in CM2.
Perhaps they can join me in my spoon wars game.
PeterNZ
-
Head
I did read the post, and noted the 'drive around for 5km' bit. That isn't a part of CM.
CM doesn't handle all the day-to-day -operational- actions of units at the front line (try the CMMC for that
).This includes scouting, patrolling and so on.
I imagine if the guy ended up talking about the sidecar BMW more he wouldn't have said
'and as we gunned down the T34s the sidecar zoomed up and machinegunned the crew before holding off a company of infantry to the left'.
In fact, I imagine the sidecar BMW (as ALL motorbike anywhere near the front lines would do) simply hid in some woods and did nothing.
So if you're proposing "we should have the BMW bike in there so it can sit behind a house or in a barn and do nothing", well fine, you can argue that, and I'd argue that it is a waste of BTS's time..
If you're proposing "we should include the BMW bike so it can scout out positions and shoot its mg while in a CM battle", well i'd call you a gamey son-of-a- and argue there is no point in including it so people can use the BMW in such an ahistorical manner.
(Note: CM tries to be historical, aka. not gamey, it's sorta the point of the game. Try Red Alert if you want the other kind of game)
The BMW motorbike and sidecar simply wasn't a part of front-line equipment. Soldiers didn't ride into battle on them, attacking enemy lines, people didn't dig them in to hold off the Russian hordes. So why put it in CM?
Now folks could say that it would die quickly used in scouty combat so it wouldn't be gamey to include it. Which leads to the question 'well what role would you use it for?'. If it can't scout and can't fight well, and all it's good for is hidding in a barn, well it's as much use as a field kitchen. Both were in the war. But I have yet to see the point in setting up a front lines assault bakery unit. Nor have i seen the point of including motorbikes. Or horses. or bicycles. or bakery teams. or mine dogs.
Why have BTS waste their time in this kinda thing when they could add units/items of value to the game?
PeterNZ
[ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: PeterNZer ]
-
Head
I did read the post, and noted the 'drive around for 5km' bit. That isn't a part of CM.
CM doesn't handle all the day-to-day -operational- actions of units at the front line (try the CMMC for that
).This includes scouting, patrolling and so on.
I imagine if the guy ended up talking about the sidecar BMW more he wouldn't have said
'and as we gunned down the T34s the sidecar zoomed up and machinegunned the crew before holding off a company of infantry to the left'.
In fact, I imagine the sidecar BMW (as ALL motorbike anywhere near the front lines would do) simply hid in some woods and did nothing.
So if you're proposing "we should have the BMW bike in there so it can sit behind a house or in a barn and do nothing", well fine, you can argue that, and I'd argue that it is a waste of BTS's time..
If you're proposing "we should include the BMW bike so it can scout out positions and shoot its mg while in a CM battle", well i'd call you a gamey son-of-a- and argue there is no point in including it so people can use the BMW in such an ahistorical manner.
(Note: CM tries to be historical, aka. not gamey, it's sorta the point of the game. Try Red Alert if you want the other kind of game)
The BMW motorbike and sidecar simply wasn't a part of front-line equipment. Soldiers didn't ride into battle on them, attacking enemy lines, people didn't dig them in to hold off the Russian hordes. So why put it in CM?
Now folks could say that it would die quickly used in scouty combat so it wouldn't be gamey to include it. Which leads to the question 'well what role would you use it for?'. If it can't scout and can't fight well, and all it's good for is hidding in a barn, well it's as much use as a field kitchen. Both were in the war. But I have yet to see the point in setting up a front lines assault bakery unit. Nor have i seen the point of including motorbikes. Or horses. or bicycles. or bakery teams. or mine dogs.
Why have BTS waste their time in this kinda thing when they could add units/items of value to the game?
PeterNZ
[ 04-24-2001: Message edited by: PeterNZer ]
-
There's been some very LONG debates on this whole thing, (also on horses and bicycles) check it out via searching.
It is unrealistic to have motorcyles advancing with your company as you attack an enemy position.
I don't recall ever reading about charging waves of motorbike troops, or even them used singularly in battle.
While indeed they may transport FOOs around we don't as a rule model a FOO a couple of Km from a fight..
Other problem is when shot at they would pretty much instantly be knocked out.. so why would anyone ever buy them, even if they were modeled?
Also people would use them as gamey scouting vehicles.. fast jeeps were bad enough, dirt cheap bikes would take me back to my command and conquer days...
they are cool yeah..
but not in CMs scale (AND no one bring up ASL or i'll throtle them).
PeterNZ
-
There's been some very LONG debates on this whole thing, (also on horses and bicycles) check it out via searching.
It is unrealistic to have motorcyles advancing with your company as you attack an enemy position.
I don't recall ever reading about charging waves of motorbike troops, or even them used singularly in battle.
While indeed they may transport FOOs around we don't as a rule model a FOO a couple of Km from a fight..
Other problem is when shot at they would pretty much instantly be knocked out.. so why would anyone ever buy them, even if they were modeled?
Also people would use them as gamey scouting vehicles.. fast jeeps were bad enough, dirt cheap bikes would take me back to my command and conquer days...
they are cool yeah..
but not in CMs scale (AND no one bring up ASL or i'll throtle them).
PeterNZ
-
Manx, dude, don't be affraid of trying to make a buck off your web site!
Stick up a full page of books and reviews and stuff, and if it links through to Amazon, great. I'm looking to buy another book soon, so get busy hehe
PeterNZ
-
Link doesn't work..
PeterNZ
-
It's tiny
just a news-bite down the side. Has a pic of hte web site graphic and
'Desert Fox Desert Rats group have released their north africa mod for CM, sized at 26mb, come get it from www.dfdr.com'
that's about it.. from memory.
can't scan it or anything..
PeterNZ
-
O, this is UK PC Gamer
it's probably already been out for a week..
PeterNZ
-
Check pg16 where They mention in the 'Gobbets' that the mod is out
PeterNZ
-
I didn't know he was on a diet?
PeterNZ
-
go check the sites in my sig file
Give 'Polder Grave' a try from the Der Kessel scenario page.. you'll love it!
(semihistorical battle)
PeterNZ
.
BTS Manifesto - The TRUTH Exposed!!!!
in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)
Posted
Manx, what you've done is perfect. I have spotted my title to buy and will order on friday i think (when i get paid
)
Good stuff, hope it generates some bucks for you mate!
You could do a whole thing of tying books to scenarios/operations haha!
'read related books' link or something..
anyway, go for it
PeterNZ