Need help topic: What causes Vehicles to be abandoned?

[rogue187]

I have been wondering about this lately. A couple of times now I have watched as even my crack troops seem to abandon seemingly intact vehicles. What exactly must happen for a tank crew to abandon the tank after one hit? Or a Stryker to bail when they are taking only MG fire?

I have to admit this is very disheartening. I don't understand modern tank tactics and I really need help on this. I have found that all RPGs and even old tanks can kill every American AFV from seemingly any distance. I find myself treating even the mighty Abrams as if it was a fragile thing, ready to be broken with even a stiff wind. Any advice on these issues?

[average]

Well, old tanks and equipment should be able to kill all your AFV's from most distances in game most of the time. The only exception would be M1s in the frontal arc.

I actually think if anything Strykers and Bradleys get off too lightly when engaged by 30mm AC fire from BMP2s.

Re bailing out, I haven't seen that trend except where vechicles are in an untenable situation, the crew are rattled and/or its taking penetrating hits occasionally and the crew think its time to leave.

Best example is a 50cal m1126 Stryker meeting a BMP 2. The BMP 2, unless it fires the AT4 is unlikely to get a catastrophic kill on the Stryker at the moment, but its rounds will penetrate and the 50 won't get through the frontal arc of the BMP. Naturally enough it seems the Stryker crew decide the Styker is a bad place to be and bail out.

I imagine MG fire could have the same effect as the BMPs, especially NSVs, and that if you did something silly enough with the Styker for the crew to really be uncomfortable with their situation into the bargin (isolated, side on, surrounded even).

With tanks, mobility kill, lots of effective incoming, crew casualties and no supporting combined with poor tatical employment will cause them to bail out. I personally have seen maybe M1 crew get out of a mobility killed but intact tank.

You are doing something stupid with your AFVs if you are doing this regularly.

The other thing to check is what damage the AFV in question has sustained. If the engine, optics, tracks, fcb are all knocked out then its probably a mission kill, and the crew will get out.

[rogue187]

Originally posted by average:

You are doing something stupid with your AFVs if you are doing this regularly.

I'm not sure that I would have used this quote for giving advice, but you are probably right. Most of the time I have seen my AFVs knocked out, then abandoned. Lately, they seem to be ok, but abandoned anyway. For example, I was doing the Airfield mission in the campaign. Had a MSG Stryker in the middle of the road but close to the Air Force HQ. It was doing fine, then all the sudden the crew comes out. I watched the replay and all I saw was just MG fine coming at them.

I guess I don't understand how to shape the battlefield. I know the book says that it is better to have your guys inside something with armor to check something out, but what good is keeping people inside when RPGs seem to injure or kill everyone when they hit?

[average]

You shape the battlefield any number of ways, but if you want to shape the battlefield in shockforce you use fires, spotting and manoeuvre (no i'm not an American).

In shock force you need a concept of the mission your executing.

Look at the terrain, what affords the best mixture of cover or space. Both keep you safe from threats, but both can be a hindrance. If you have lots of open space, consider the threats your likely to face. You need to consider if you want concealment and methods of bringing the AO under direct observation.

Get a mental range card. At 300m-400m your IFVs are outside the effective range of most RPGs and are vunerable only to ATGMs and AFVs and the SPG.

Therefore, before I move inside 300m I want to know what is there. I also want to know what fire lanes I'm going to move inside in crossing that ground. Work out the likely/probable and confirmed locations of your threats.

So the first order of the day is to get an idea of the disposition and composition of my foe, what his scheme of defence is.

Best way of doing this is observation. Second way of doing it is by fires (ie shoot at suspected enemy locations to try and provoke a respone). The third is to try and draw fire. The forth is to probe, that is start an attack with the aim of only drawing fire. The worst way of doing it is simply closing the range and hoping that you can react and overcome the resistance before you suffer losses.

So that sounds fine, but how to do it in game terms is to wait at a range outside of their effective AT weapons. If nothing is doing, then consider any one of the following:-

a. dismount, move infantry into cover;

b. fire at suspected enemy locations;

c. conduct a limited advance on a ratio of 1:3, that is 1 unit moves, 3 provde overwatch.

If still no response then consider conducting a rapid advance to cover through the suspected fire lane. That means get a stryker, depending on ammo state have units fire in the movement, and dash through the firelane into cover or through and back. A fast moving stryker is hard to hit with an rpg at anything other than point blank.

Assuming you provoke a contact, get fire onto it if possible. If its nasty, break contact, but that means everyone has to shoot to cover the bound back.

Once you've got a contact, consider if you can eliminate it with your available fires, if not consider indirect fires.If you can't eliminate it or your saving your munitions for another threat, can you move around the contact, is there any more favourable terrain given the contact you've bumped.

So you come to a cross roads, do you press the contact, do you break it or do you remain in situ.

Remaining in situ can work, it wears down their ammo state and allows other elements to operate without being particurly concerned by it.

But assuming your feeling aggressive, you shape the battlefield with your fires and by manoeuvre.

Consider the airfield mission. You want to shape the battlefield. Well you can do that by opening up the distances, picking approach march, destorying strong points, cover and concealement.

At the most basic level you might simply change the axis of your thrust and knock down the partially demolished building on the corner while occupying the control tower. In that example you shape the battlefield by deciding the terrain, deciding what elements are committed to contact, denying the enemy movement, denying the enemy use of the terrain (ie the partially demolished building).

If you do that without knowing what your facing, then you are in the classic sense shaping the battlefield because your denying the enemy the intitative and use of his plans or contigencies.

Also remember to keep your units in contact with each other and in touch with supporting elements. Don't leave them isolated, the more guns you have in any given area, the more fire you can respond with to point targets. You want to gain fire supremacy and freedom of action, not just die the death of a thousand cuts.