Yet another suggestion!

[Jiggler]

I was considering the US in WWII and I believe that, had Germany mananged to capture Moscow and Stalingrad and captured Britain than the US would probably, without the nuclear bomb drop out of the war (don't get me wrong, I'm not making a post in favour of the N bomb). Had Germany managed to achieve the above there is almost no way it would have had the man power to take up and invasion of America bearing in mind the size of land that Germany would also need to garrison would also take away from its Manpower.

So my suggestion for maybe an optional victory condition for the Axis is the complete removal of Allied countries and forces from Europe. Considering this the US would have most likely, in my opinion abandoned Europe to its fate as it had no more allies there and also had the war with Japan. Also it would be harder for it to actually invade as the Germans would have only one front to fight on and the Americans would find it very hard to supply its forces and with no friendly intelligence that was supplied by Britain

So maybe an optional victory condition should be the destruction of all Allied forces in Europe and this would cause America to loose heart and drop out of the war, though not surrender.

Also as no US cities ever got bombed, maybe the bombing some of their cities could also cause the civillians to loose heart and start to force the government to drop out. Bearing in mind that no US city had ever been bombed and the people of America had always been far removed from the suffering in Europe.

Perhaps a better victory condition would be the destruction of all Allied forces in Europe and the destruction of the US's Atlantic Navy. This would almost certainly cause the US to drop out or seek a diplomatic soloution as they had by then failed all their objectives. Or maybe the act of German soldiers landing on America after the above destruction could cause America to seek a diplomatic end to the war in return for the land captured by Germany? :confused:

I think that this is worth considering as an optional condition, especially if the simulation is to be realistic as Germany could probably have never successfully invaded the US.

Please excuse any spelling differences as I'm using Australian grammatical rules

[_onepercent]

You raise a good point, but I think you're going at it the wrong way.

I think the game should have in it the factors that help create a stalemate should the axis manage to defeat all of Europe, so the players are allowed to try to their best in this what-if scenario, and get bogged down in a stalemate (which I belive is the way things would have gone).

Some free american fortresses to make it difficult for the axis to invade, and "Pacific Forces Transfer"/national guard/militia etc for the US, should the axis actually launch an invasion fleet.

Not to mention the limited transport ships each side will get, and thus have a hard time shipping a large enough army either way to go head on against the enemy alone.

[ September 28, 2004, 12:01 PM: Message edited by: _onepercent ]

[_onepercent]

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[Jiggler]

The point of the US being in the war was to prevent one nation, being Germany become to powerful in Europe and to come to the aid of Britain, if they had failed I still believe they would have turned their back on Europe as a new invasion without nuclear weapons would have been hopless and unachievable just like a Nazi invasion of America would never succeed. This would effectively end WWII and the game as Germany had uncontested power in Europe.

Surely the war on the US's part would stop dead in its tracks and with no German attempt at invasion both countries would most likely sign a cease fire.

It just suprised me that after taking Britain, I then had to go invade Canada and the US, something which would never have happened as one Germany would not have the money or available soldiers to invade and Hitler's only military objectives were to take over Europe and remove American presence from Europe. If they do that they've won and America can't re-invade.

In the first place America needed somewhere close to launch all of its military actions e.g. Britain or Australia in the case of the Pacific war.

Can I get some more opinions please?

[pzgndr]

It just suprised me that after taking Britain, I then had to go invade Canada and the US

Hubert already mentioned that SC2 will have editable victory conditions, so making USA surrender a requirement for Axis victory in the game should be optional. Without getting into all of the politics and what-ifs, the loss of France, Britain and Russia would effectively end WWII in Europe. As a "game" victory condition, that should be acceptable.

For those who want to play what-ifs and allow the Axis to make trans-Atlantic seaborne invasions to conquer the world then that option would also be available to them.