A Radical New Approach to the Meeting Engagement

[joeski]

Pillar: I tried scouting last night against the AI. It went rather well and worked better than I thought. I started late and only got to turn 10 of 25, but it was very helpful in like you said "letting me know where the enemy is not" I tried it with one vet pl, and one sharpshooter. I was surprised how far I got before I was spotted. But like I said it was against the AI. Also thanks for the link to Fionns AAR's they are nice and have pictures too! I used to see Fionn on here before. But haven't lately, do you know him? Just curious. Thanks again

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"If you're in a war, instead of throwing a hand grenade at the enemy, throw one of those small pumpkins. Maybe it'll make everyone think how stupid war is, and while they are thinking, you can throw a real grenade at them." - Jack Handey

[Guest Pillar]

Joeski,

Glad it worked out ok. Now you just have to learn how to exploit that information.

As for Fionn, he and I have chatted a few times. Much of what my tactics involve was influenced by him.

[Pham911]

I'm not sure I agree with the necessary support of armor by infantry. I was playing with the theory that armor should not move seperatly(at least by much) from infantry so that you have a good combined force that can hopefully crush any opposition. Then, while reading "Panzer Battles" by F.W. Von Mellenthin I came across something that really stuck out:

"The Allied military leaders, and particularly the French, still though in terms of World War I, and split up thier armor among the infantry divisions."

Now, obviously, CM doesn't deal with divisional levels, but I started playing around with unsupported armor even though it seemed like a dumb assed idea at the tactical level. Maybe it is in reality, but I found that in CM it works wonderfully. My armor suddenly changed from plodding along as the infantry swept for possible AT teams in woods, houses, etc, to being amazingly fast and, the key thing, my tank losses actually decreased.

I've found the following through PBEM play, which I assume is a better gague than playing against the AI:

My tanks last longer and are mostly invunerable to being immobilized by artillery due to movement.

If an AT team pops up near your tank, the TacAI for your tanks will attempt to avoid it(reverse) while at the same time firing at it. If you've got 3 or 4 tanks grouped together, that's 3 or 4 heavy MG's, along with HE rounds hitting the AT team, which will usually suppress or die with only a single shot being fired by them.

If you're not preparing for known contact, use fast move instead of hunt and you'll pass most threats before they open up on you. And those that get a shot off will usually miss. In fact, you can plot longer moves to race past trouble spots and then do a short hunt move for the last waypoint to peek over a hill and engage once you spot enemy armor.

If you take care to use one of the tanks for overwatch, you can even stop next to dicey, unsearched locations. This doesn't work well at all when buttoned, however, but if you fire into the unsearched location with the buttoned overwatch tank(assuming it can't unbutton, which would be better), you can compensate for this shortcoming.

You can do wide and rapid flanking moves and can sometimes actually penetrate into the enemies rear area, which will usually screw any plans he has, especially if you're the defender and you've just charged him with your tanks.

And the kicker, if you elliminate most or all of the enemy armor, you can create a bridgehead by ramming into enemy infantry lines with your armor as your own infantry charges. Mileage may vary, as this can turn into a fiasco in a hurry. I wouldn't do this in a PBEM ladder game personally.

All of this assumes that it's a big enough map to manuver on, and that you have control over your tank groups(platoon, two tanks, whatever) as well as the individual tanks that comprise the group.

I guess it goes back to the old debate, should armor support infantry or should infantry support armor. In CM, I say screw it. Sepearate the two and call it a day.

[Guest Pillar]

Try it in a pbem, tell us what happens.

[Pham911]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Pillar:

Try it in a pbem, tell us what happens.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've no problem using armor to force a bridgehead in a normal PBEM(in theory, as I've only done it with the AI to date.. may not work as well against another person, but it seems to rely mostly on the TacAI, and I'm not sure what another person could do once it was in full motion), but in a ladder game... Nah.

The reason? If it doesn't work on a given attempt, it doesn't work spectacularly well. And then you find yourself yelling to your infantry, "Stop running! Can't you friggin see that the assault didn't work?!? The crews are out of the tanks" But, of course, they can't hear you and keep on charging into the MG fire without a care in the world.

Like I said, it either works or it doesn't. It's pretty cool to watch either way, though. Not for the feint of heart, or for anyone who hasn't wiped all serious armor threats off the map first. May cause drowsiness, fatigue, or leg cramps. Call doctor if problems persist.

And, Pillar, why aren't you asleep? It's past 3:30am. Getting closer to 4 now. Go to bed.

[Samhain]

As far as three or four tanks getting shots off against a lone AT gun in the situation you described, be careful of the terrain and especially weather and time of day. Thanks to foolish overconfidence and a particularly well placed AT gun (by the AI, no less), I lost four (doh! the shame!) AFV's (two tanks, Wirbelwind, HT) in one turn to the same AT gun. This was on a dawn/dusk map, so very limited visibility coupled with an ambush made life miserable. (Still won the QB by a landslide though )

Certainly an interesting proposal in general. I know I've been playing under the assumption (borne out through my admittedly limited experience ) that tanks, particularly buttoned ones, need nearby or leading infantry. But that of course sacrifices their speed and mobility, which, as you say, are protective strengths in themselves. Have to try these ideas....

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Hope you got your things together,

Hope you are quite prepared to die. --CCR

[Guest Pillar]

Sleep? What's that? Is that the thing that comes after mid-term exams?

Oh yeah, I remember that....