Inf/AT guns and TRP without LOS

[Sigurd]

I was playing a defensive battle in fog (with 200 m of LOS), and had only 47mm AT guns as "artillery" kind of support

I was highly disapointed when I figured out those AT guns couldn't fire on a TRP without LOS.

Yes, the manual only says "on map mortars can fire on TRP without LOS, and AT/Inf guns get a hit bonus when targetting near a TRP.", so no word for AT/Inf guns over TRP without LOS

So my question is : were those gun crews only trained for direct fire ? Was some indirect fire on a TRP some 500 m away (still out of LOS) truly impossible for them ?

Perhaps for AT guns it make sense, but bigger inf guns (like the german 150 mm) should be able to do such indirect fires on TRP, shouldn't they ? (I haven't done the test, but the explanation in the manual should be valid for them too)

My poor italian soldiers, without concentrated HE support, didn't make it against the soviet hordes...

May your explanations let them make understand why they died...

[YankeeDog]

Yes, you are absolutely right. If the CM model were perfect, on-map infantry guns with relatively low velocity projectiles, (mostly howitzers) probably should be able to fire indirect, especially on TRPs.

Indirect fire by AT guns, while theoretically possible, is much less likely on any but the largest of CM maps - the much higher velocity of ATG projectiles means that they are going to travel much further downrange if fired on a high enough trajectory to clear an intervening obstacle.

As I understand it, this is a limitation of the current model - CM doesn't really have the ability to calculate the position of a projectile along it's entire flight path, so it can't tell for sure if a given area of the map would be hittable by indirect fire from a gun, or if any intervening terrain such as a hill or building would intercept the projectile.

For mortars this is not especially important - their trajectory is so high, it's very unlikely that a mortar bomb would hit anything between the muzzle and the target. You can't really model on-board indirect fire from guns without taking this into account, though - even a very small rise (or other object like a stand of trees or a building) in front of the gun would create a large "shadow" downrange that would be unhittable.

Hopefully, the engine rewrite will model projectile flight in more detail and allow indirect fire by on-board howitzers when and where appropriate. Doing so would make certain weapons, such as the the German 150mm/L11 howitzer, considerably more useful. Modeling projectile flight in more detail would also prevent some minor inaccuracies in on-board mortar fire. For example, right now you can place a mortar team directly behind a large building, but still fire the mortar to maximum range. IRL, a mortar positioned in such a way would not be able to fire projectiles out to longer ranges without the rounds clipping the edge of the building on the way up.

Cheers,

YD

[Sigurd]

Thank you a lot YD for this complete answer !

I didn't think at the current engine limitation you mentioned. Another new feature hopefully to be seen in the new engine.