I'm proud to announce RobO's Quick campaign (ROQC) version 1

[88mm]

Battle 9 -final results

The Sovjet infantry could kept at distance quit easily thanks to the whether, 24x HMG/LMG's and the fact that they were concripts. After the first initial succes on the left-flank where some 10+ russian armor were overwhelmed by my battle-hardened Vet's of Platoon 1 & 2 it became critical to push futher to the east to engage the other, bigger formation of armor. Some Russion T34's alreay started to penetrate my right flank, while the 2 50mm/L-60 AT-guns there lay in pieces. To be precise, one down the other panicked. My HQ and the 3d platoon had to wait a little longer to go into the fight after my first 2 platoon engages. Afterall; Head on with 2x PziiiJ and 4x PzIIIh's should not give me much of a advantage. By turn 24/25 the first contacts took place, with some suprise to me yet still no losses from those 2 platoons. Aldo 2 of them stranded in the mud i gues so they were no use to the fight anymore (no LOS).

This was the critical fase, any loss now to my first two platoons could end up in a desastrous result in the end. As soon as i noticed most of his Pz turned their hull to the west, i gave the hunt order for my HQ and PZIIIh's to take advantage of it. Lots of side-shots assured from 500m or less !

Few turns later all damage was done, all russian armor was silenced. Time to pick up some more points and take some infantry favor

CNN-after battle report:

Battlefield 2D overview

Battlefield 3D close-up

CO-leader Cpt. von Klein in action

Lt. showing off his new tank.

1st Companie family-shot

[Robert Olesen]

Interesting read, 88mm.

I have received an interesting request from 88mm, which I'd like opinions on if anyone is listening.

It appears that 88mm is using the player ranks as a roleplaying element, and gets into problems because the promotion/demoton mechanism is intended solely to balance the game difficulty. You're not supposed to strive for a higher rank - in a way I guess I should have used generic names for the difficulty levels.

The roleplaying aspect is interesting, however. His suggestion is to have some generic difficulty levels (novice/beginner/etc) that are the main factors in determining difficulty. The ranks would provide smaller difficulty adjustments on top of that. The promotion and demotion mechanism would remain much the same (perhaps changed a bit) so that gaining ranks doesn't come entirely free. This would mean that it is up to the player to adjust the overall difficulty level to his own level of play.

What do you think? Would that be a good addition to the campaign? Please note that the player rank has nothing to do with the rank of the CO of your core force. It would be somewhat ridiculous to have a General command a platoon of tanks.

[Robert Olesen]

There is now a beta version available at the ROQC site

I need some help to test it. Please post here or send me an email if you download it, as I'd like to have some feeling with the amount of attendance it gets. I do not count downloads.

The main changes are the addition of mortars when counting unit experience (so HawkerT, I'm expecting you to volunteer voluntarily for testing ), a support force adjustment for large core forces and a change in the handling of difficulty that should allow you to progress to a higher rank more easily (88mm, count yourself in too )

I'm mainly looking for errors in the spreadsheet and in the rules. There is no pdf file yet, nor gif tables - please tell me if you need any of those.

Oh, and be sure to check section 2.3.7 in the rules before moving data from the old sheet to the new one.

Here's the list of changes:

Error corrections:

· Citation for core force as a whole computed incorrectly: Core force citations were never awarded in 1.00

Modifications:

· InText macro removed from spreadsheet.

· The probability of skipping June 1944 in the Finnish region decreased.

· Experience of core force additions added to Control Sheet to help you when upgrading the core force (the value is a copy of the replacement experience value from the previous battle)

· Support force points increased for core forces with point value at least 1200 to allow for more variety in battle size.

· Demotion limit changed to -20% of Favor limit

· Enemy Force Handicap roll changed to decrease the spread of handicaps you get for different battles at the same difficulty level.

· Unit experience update after battle changed so that you now get points for mortars, and tanks with 75mm guns or larger gets less for killing vehicles.

[ November 29, 2003, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

[Reichenberg]

Just got the 1.01c downloaded. I will test it on my system and give you some feedback in the next days. Hope everything works fine and smooth.

Regards

Uwe

[88mm]

Have dl't the updates. However, just started a new and great campaign with Armygroup Center; 17 PIVc's in 4 platoons. Yes, i found a trick to do just that. Fire up the scenario-editor, set the dat to jan-43. Now you can buy the 5-tank platoons of PIVc's that i really wanted. Done 4 battles already, so i dunno if i start all over again. Battle 4 was fun, many flags, 1 full bataljon of inf. + my Core + 8c PZIIIj's (short) and 4x PSW222 and the rest of support (art etc.).

3000+ battle. Turns go rather quick, seems when the enemy doesn't move that much calculations go faster. Max 1 min. waiting time. In meeting/defence games waiting times go up to 3 minutes or more.

Can i transfer my core to the new sheets :confused:

[Robert Olesen]

Originally posted by 88mm:

Can i transfer my core to the new sheets :confused:

Sure. Let me quote from the rules:

2.3.7 Converting data from an old sheet

If you need to port campaign data from an old sheet to a fresh copy of the master sheet (e.g. if you want to upgrade to a newer version or you want to remove an error that has crept in), the procedure is fairly simple with one exception:

You must copy values only in order to preserve the formatting of the cells. That is: Use Paste Special, then Values, not just Paste.

The procedure is:

1. Copy all the data you have input yourself from the old sheet to the new one.

2. Copy all die roll results that you need (cells with orange background) from the old sheet to the new one. They can be found in the Auto sheet and the Core Force Sheet.

If that isn't clear, please let me know so I can update it.

I decided to have a go at the difficulty suggestion by 88mm, so fairly soon you can set yourself a personal rank as goal.

[VampyreBK]

Mhm, i played this campaign for some time now. Started out with two Companys gebirgsjager and three independent Tanks ( PzIII and 2 PzII ) in June 41.

It is now November 1943 and i am in command of a reinforced Batallion Gebirgsjager 43 with multiple gun support. Eben had to update the macros to count the core force until row 150

I just took a look at the point values of my russian opponent, just to see what i am up to and he is around a 12000 points force.... too bad my simple 1Ghz Proz handles 1 turn in around 15 minutes now.

But this Campaign surely is something good roleplaying if someone could only minimize the CMBB while calculating *lol*

[Robert Olesen]

Hi VampyreBK

Sounds like you're accumulating (and spending) a lot of Favor. I tried make a self-balancing system through the promotion / demotion system that would eventually limit the amount of Favor you get. How did that work in your case? What's your rank now and what was it at start? I'd be interested in seeing the latest spreadsheet if you have a complete history sheet.

[VampyreBK]

Hello Robert,

I started out as Captain ( Hauptmann ) with regular troops as I use these promotions for the same roleplaying effect as 88mm. For me it is nonsense to be a general commanding a batallion, so I had to keep the favor low in some cases, meaning NOT to achieve some victories

Spending of favor means, that i usually start every new battle with 2 to 4 points left

The current Rank for the Battle group is Colonel ( Oberst ), but i do not have a complete history sheet as i had to update my Gebirgsjager Forces two times, and the organization of a Geb.Jg. Batallion differs from year to year.

That is, for example, something that made me lot of paperwork to reorganize my whole forces manually.

[88mm]

You have 150 units in your "battle group" , wow Yuor patient must be super, i never would wait 15 minutes or more for a "next turn".

[Robert Olesen]

VampyreBK, I think you'll be pleased with the changes I'm making. They will allow you to progress all the way up the ranks without getting into excessively difficult battles.

Do you think I should use a more tight set of ranks, so that I'll end up lower, that is insert the different grades of Lieutenant, Captain etc? The point is to increase the roleplaying aspect.

It's funny how such a thing as the roleplaying aspect can pass through testing without being mentioned.

I have been shying away from making rules for the reorganisation of infantry units. I'm not sure they can be written in a meaningful way, and I want ROQC to be a simple as possible. But there's no reason why you can't keep your history for the battles, though you'll have to delete the unit history (or at least most of it) when you reorganise.

[VampyreBK]

Not exactly 150 Units, 4 companys Gebirgsjäger, 1 MG Company, 1 Hvy Weapons Company, 1 AA Company and six Armored Units

And I AM not patient, thats why I am searching for a way to minimize CMBB while the calculating process to do some other things on the Computer

@Robert:

I would REALLY appreciate more different Ranks

The way from Hauptmann to Feldmarschall is a little bit too fast in my opinion

I do have some history for the last ( around ) 30 battles, but my unit history is completely gone due to the reorganisation from gebJg Batallion 42 to 43. I am not sure if applying rules for reorganization would be possible.... especially because german infantry loses 1 squad per platoon in 1943...

I'll send the file to you in the next minutes

[88mm]

Updated my core to the new sheets, everything seems alright. Only one difference; instead of a 2000 Qb (old sheet) it now is a 3000 Qb. So i think it's better to start the last battle again with this new setting. Gives me 1420p to spend instead of the old 420

4 companies, wow. That's a whole F**kin Bataljon

Ghi, how many men you have in your kampgruppe ?

Must be more then 1000!

[ November 30, 2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

[VampyreBK]

Exactly 891 Men

The problem here is, of course, that russian manpower is much higher with the +20 to +200% percent.

Sometimes it happens to my Gebirgsjager, that five Batallions russian Guards plus multiple tanks are storming my positions. That is one of those situations for the 150mm Ari to help out

[88mm]

Nice

About th eranking stuff, just bought a kubelwagen for fun a whole company of inf, so with a HQ Co Hauptman. this brought me a idea, why not give each campaing a CO HQ and a kubelwagen by default One problem do, you can't buy a single Hauptman with raincoat

Anyway; should be a nice twist; keep your Hauptman alive, flee (tactical withdraw..) the battlefield when nessecairy. CO dead? Game over !

[VampyreBK]

Originally posted by 88mm:

this brought me a idea, why not give each campaing a CO HQ and a kubelwagen by default

Thats exactly what I thougt

But a Kubelwagen is too fragile for my Batallion HQ, so i gave him a StuH42 as personal vehicle

[Robert Olesen]

Vampyre's core force is an amazing 5926 points. I think. The problem is that he's probably making the same mistake as everyone else. I thought I spelled this out clearly in the rules - but I can't have done that. Or perhaps people don't read the rules. It wouldn't surprise me. Not much I can do about that except add some control stuff to the spreadsheet.

The core force point value in his sheet (the sum of D25:D29 in the control sheet) is the same as the core force point cost (H8 in the core force sheet). They should be different as most of his core force is Vet or better. Except that the core force is in a weakened condition, which reduces the point value (not the cost) so they could conceivably end up with the same value. Not likely, though.

Vampyre, how do you do this? You're supposed to read off the point values (D25:D29) from the editor using the core force file before each battle, and you're also supposed to edit the weakened condition into each eligible unit when it applies (before you read off the point values). Do you do that? It's a lot of work to edit ca. 100 units.

As for that Kubelwagen, you'll just have to add it yourselves. I'm not going to make it mandatory

And 88mm, that change from 2000 points to 3000 is in the changelog: I increased the support force size for large core forces. But remember, you may get 1000 points more, but so does the AI, and it probably has a sizeable force size bonus on top of that.

[88mm]

:eek: Now he tells me. The other battle (old vers.) was a piece of cake, inf. only and good vision. So i didn't finish it to fight with the new sheets, 3000f. What's worse; vision only 200m (at dawn!) and lots of armor againts me (random enemy). lost 4 Pz in this chaos

Ow well, still good enough for a promotion.

[Robert Olesen]

OK, Beta version 1.01d is ready for your pleasure.

There's a minor bug fix and the promised changes to difficulty handling and rank.

Here's the rule text on those issues:

3.1 Difficulty Level

The level of difficulty acts as a modifier when determining the amount of support and opposition you will get.

There are five difficulty levels, explained in the following table:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Difficulty Level Explanation

Tutorial Intended for those people who are unfamiliar with the game.

It is in my opinion too easy for a lengthy campaign.

Easy For people who habitually have difficulty beating the AI.

Normal For people who have some experience with the AI and can beat it fairly often.

Hard For those who have learned how to outmaneuver the AI and who need an extra challenge.

Grueling Use this level if you?re really bored with the AI and don?t mind biting nails </pre>

Pick the level that suits you best. This level will stay with you for a complete campaign. You can change it during a campaign if you find that you picked the wrong level, but that should be a rare exception. Picking a too low difficulty will, essentially, cause you to gain a lot of Favor and win most of the battles. It will also promote you fairly quickly.

3.2 Player Rank

The rank of you, the player, is used as an extra difficulty modifier and as a role playing element in ROQC. The available ranks are shown here:

</font><blockquote>code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Rank Abbreviation

General Gen

Brigadier General Brig Gen

Colonel Col

Lieutenant Colonel Lt Col

Major Maj

Captain Cpt

1st Lieutenant 1st Lt

2nd Lieutenant 2nd Lt

Corporal Cpl

Private Pvt</pre>

[VampyreBK]

Uhm, I do read the values from the editor moving them to the control sheet, but as I purchased a rather huge formation for one price ( the batallion ) i usually count the independent units together and put the differing points on the Bat.HQ. as these pts should be there then... or not? :confused:

I had the opinion both Sums from control- and coreforce sheet should fit together... poor me not reading the rules exactly?

[88mm]

Hey, i am going to test this ASAP, iin other words; NOW!

ps: i am not a luitenant, ich bin ein Feldwebel; scheisse :cool:

Vampyr: Thats oke, you can fill in the total at your Bataljon Hq. But only after you have changed each individual experience right like they are at present in your core force sheet. Also you have to include the fitnes-state in the math.

The totals for regular units go into the control sheet.

[ December 01, 2003, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

[Robert Olesen]

Vampyre: No, they are not identical. The values on the core force sheet correspond to Regular units. This is because the upgrade price should be independent of the quality of the unit. However, feel free to bend that if it's too much work for you.

88mm: Can you give me a list of the corresponding German ranks, also for SS units?

Can someone gove me one for Finnish forces and Soviets as well?

I'll try to work them in if I can get them. No promises, though - it could be tricky.

[VampyreBK]

So the core force values should be lower than they are? This could cause my force to drop below 5.000 pts and if that means I do not have to take on an 4:1 Opposition anymore, I'll correct this at once

[88mm]

you have two value's, the point cost and the point value. The first (point cost) are based on regular units and is used for the upgrade calculations; these are the points in your core force-sheet. The point value is filled in on the first page; the control-sheet. This number is your current value of all your core force, however this time the exact value at present experience of your units; this total number(s) (inf/support/ etc.etc.) you find in the editor.

So after each battle you change your units to their new experience (if any) in the editor and you immediately see it effects the price. After all that done (over 140 pieces can take some time ) you can fill the totals for each category in at your sheet. Now you have your pre-battle "point value". Your point cost at the other sheet (core force) only changes when you upgrade a unit and only presents the (total) cost for regular(experienced) units.

Example: you core cost should be 1200 when they all are regulars. But if in fact they all re green, they are cheaper to buy, as you see this in your editor; say 1000p. The 1200 goes to the core-sheet and the 1000 to the control-sheet. that's it. Only when you have a battle with weakened (fitness) core force you have to adjust the control-sheet number (lowered i guess).

when you have a lot of Vets/Crack forces, most of the time the Point value= higher then the point Cost.

ps: robert! check it out > http://www.dasreich.ca/ranks.html

[ December 01, 2003, 03:31 PM: Message edited by: 88mm ]

[Robert Olesen]

Point value changes due to Weakened / Unfit units are handled automatically in the setup sheet. The values in the control sheet are from the core force file, not the cme file for the current battle. Fitness status is not edited into the core force file itself, it is edited into the file for the current battle, and the point values corrected for fitness thus do not show up in the control sheet. Thanks for that point explanation, 88mm, I couldn't have said it better myself.

And Vampyre, it's the point cost that goes down in your case, not the point value (or the point value that goes up), as most of your units are better than Regular. Sorry. There's only one sure way to avoid those 4:1 odds: Get a smaller core force. Well, you could also drop in difficulty, but that wouldn't be fun.