Dandelion Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Hi all Recent experiences and posts has made me curious about the concepts of troop quality. It seems there are many different interpretations of what it means. So I want to collect some input from the good gamers on this site. The CM manual gives only vague guidance, leaving gamers quite free to interpret. How would you like to flesh it out? Which units would you historically describe as conscript, green, regulars, veterans, crack or elite respectively? What would be the relevant criteria, in your opinion? Regards Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted May 11, 2003 Share Posted May 11, 2003 Hmmm. Well that is a good question and an interesting one Dandelion. I have wondered about that myself and have heard several different interpretations. I myself only play with regular as my understanding is that anything higher is not worth the money except maybe in bazooka teams or sharpshooters but I really don't know for sure and am strictly counting on somebody's elses opinion. If I am not wrong and I may very well be but I think JasonC is the one that mentioned that the two mentioned above are the only two worth really spending the extra points for. Anyway, I would be interested in hearing from some more learned individuals then myself so I will shut up and listen or I suppose I should say read. Now before I do however I will say one last thing and that being I do believe that even an elite soldier can die with one bullet so is it worth it to have elite units? OK two last things. I have also read somewhere that it is more realistic to play with green troops since they behave more like what real live soldiers would behave. Example; how much fire and casualties a unit would take before panicking. Anyway my 2 cents not that I've answered your question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted May 11, 2003 Author Share Posted May 11, 2003 Looks like I'm going to have to help you kickstart my discussion Lee The game mixes experience (Green, Veteran) with employment forms (Conscript, Regular) and quality (Crack, Elite). The 12th SS Panzer Division in Normandy was composed of a core of handpicked veteran officers, many of which had performed to a level deserving the title "crack", and a large body of wholly inexperienced troops. Their training was what can reasonably be called elite level, and so was motivation. They were not conscripted or drafted, but volonteer regular personnel. What's the proper CMBO troop quality for this unit, and why? Cheerio Dandelion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lcm1947 Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Sorry Dandelion but I won't be any help to you in finding the answer to your question. I am not knowledgeable enough to even carry on a conversation about it although I myself am interested in hearing from the more learned on this question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klapton Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Well, I would interpret experience levels this way: Conscript: men rushed to military service without proper training and motivation, including teens, oldmen, sick, injured and former prisoners. Examples: Static divisions. Green: troops recently arrived at the frontline without combat experience. This might be whole divisions or replacement troops. Sometimes it would be the NCOs who don't have enough experience (at least as officers), other the privates. Examples: American 4th Inf Div. Canadian 2nd Inf Div, Luftwaffe field divisions. Regular: the troops that form the base of an army. Have combat experience or a lot of training, or enough motivation for fighting. Examples: American 29th, German 353. Veteran: troops with a lot of combat experience, or intensive training in a particular task (crews, FOs, snipers). This may include whole formations. Examples: American 1st, German 352 and 21 Panzer. Crack: hand-picked troops for specialized tasks, usually young men in good physical condition and with combat experience. Paras and mountain troops would be the most obvious examples. Troops with an exceptional career involving months of continuous hard fighting may also be included here. Examples: rangers, elements of British 6th Ab. and German SS. Elite: exceptional individuals. Tank aces, heroes and the like. Example: Wittman. The experience of FOs, as it affects the delay time of arty, may also reflect its availability and responsiveness for the particular mission you are conducting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Manuel Posted May 12, 2003 Share Posted May 12, 2003 Originally posted by Dandelion: The 12th SS Panzer Division in Normandy was composed of a core of handpicked veteran officers, many of which had performed to a level deserving the title "crack", and a large body of wholly inexperienced troops. Their training was what can reasonably be called elite level, and so was motivation. They were not conscripted or drafted, but volonteer regular personnel. What's the proper CMBO troop quality for this unit, and why? Probably Veteran-type quality HQ units with good bonuses, but Green to Regular Squads and maybe Hvy weps teams. So if you go out of command, you really suffer. But only presumes that the Platoon Sergeants are so experienced, since isn't it true that the Plt. Sgt. is in the Platoon HQ unit? It is likely that the 12th SS may have had lots of experienced Squad Sgt's. So I guess there should be a mix of Green and Regular squads. The "use Greens b/c they simulate real troops" thing is far more applicable to CMBO than CMBB. CMBO needs it b/c troops will go racing thru MG42 fire as if they were picking tulips. Not so in CMBB, so I think you can use Regulars where you might have used Greens for realism's sake in CMBO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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