Bruce70 Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 I didn't know which thread to post this in so I thought why not start a new one? The majority view (or at least the vocal minority) seems to be that air power plays too great a role in SC. But there appears to be two different views on this. 1. Air fleets are too stong and should not be able to destroy a unit (in SC that is - lets not get into the RL debate) 2. Air fleets are too numerous and should be limited in some way. In the games I have played no major power has had more than 6 or 7 air fleets and the games have been quite enjoyable, so for me #2 is the only possible problem. Which of these two problems do other people believe is more serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 Originally posted by Bruce70: I didn't know which thread to post this in so I thought why not start a new one?Are you insane? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion_22 Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 Well, the ability to build 20 air fleets is a much, much more ridiculous notion that that of a unit being wiped from the face of the map with attacks by 5 air fleets and no ground support, but I still think the effects of the air fleets should be closer to CoS (ie. major readiness drops) with increased casualties for panzer units. (I do think they´re vulnerable to being chopped up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Good Soldier Svejk Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 I think resource allocation answers for numbers almost any way that you look at it. Arifleets, especially high tech level ones, are very expensive (both to buy and to replace losses). If a player loads up on them, then he either has massive resources (imagine how many other units you would be swamped by if he didn't buy all those airfleets) or his forces are seriously lacking in some other area. The same goes, I guess, for any unit, though, to a lesser extent (again, especially if you're talking high tech level units). If you limit air units, then you probably need to limit others (most notably naval, if you're talking capital-intensive programs, they don't come any heavier as far as national effort than major naval units), and that's a slippery slope that leads to another kind of game, I think (more along the lines of a straight history: pull out the actual WWII Order of Battle and play with actual units vs managing your own resources). Salute! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 1. Air fleets are too stong 2. Air fleets are too numerous Agree with #1, but this is due more to rapid tech advances to the higher levels than anything else. The proposed 5-4-3-2-1 research tweak should adequately address this. Adding AA tech advance bonuses to all units is another good idea. Air superiority is an important aspect in the game, and players need to make appropriate strategic decisions to gain superiority, maintain parity, or hand the theater initiative to the other side. Tough choices, but not necessarily a game flaw. I have not seen #2 to be a problem either, except for the AI tendency to build/rebuild lots of HQs and air fleets relative to its ground forces, and there's another possible tweak to address that. Just who has seen 20 air fleets in play anyway?? Except for games where Germany defeats USSR or Britain and then shifts it's economic muscle to deal with the other, but even then I haven't seen force pools get too far out of whack until the very end and by then the issue is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hEad Posted September 24, 2002 Share Posted September 24, 2002 evening gentlemen.. nice to meet you all!.. Its a bit of a difficult issue this one.. the game engine makes airpower fundamental for cracking the line.. maybe just increase the cost of the air units.. any diminishing of power will, in my opinion slow the game down too much and entenched static defensive lines will rule the day!... Yeah.. in sum, increase the cost of air units, keep them at the same power and also dont allow air fleets to attack strategic targets.. got to have a reason for the bombers.. which at the moment, is quite negligible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daringly Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 I haven't seen a problem with Germany having too many air fleets, until the game is already decided. There is a problem however, that defensive air is useless. The fact that both Britain and Russia flee from German fighters is indicative of a play balance problem. Regardless of the cause, it limits the allied options (and later the axis options) which not good. A3R determines the loser's casualties, and then the winner takes half. Could something like that be implemented? Or in the alternative, air which is intercepted automatically attacks its ground target at half strength? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorpion_22 Posted September 25, 2002 Share Posted September 25, 2002 The massive airfleets start popping up at a rate of 1 unit per turn as soon as the East Front develops into the trench war it usually develops into. You wouldn´t be swamped by other units if there weren´t dozens of airfleets since you cannot stack units. Also, limiting the tech levels of airfleets only makes the problem worse. How so? Well, advances to jets don´t increase the air fleets´ ground attack values, do they not? So, by limiting the tech levels, the air fleets will be even cheaper than before, since their tech level (and cost) isn´t so high. Of course, the industrial tech won´t be as high either, but that´s a different matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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