Link between Norway, Sweeden and Finland

[Norse]

Do you think that units should be allowed to be operated from Norway/Sweeden to Finland?

~Norse~

[Guest Mike]

Not from Norway to Finland if Sweden is Neutral - IIRC there were bugger-all troops able to pass "over the top".

Dunno about from Seden to Finkland tho - what was the transport situation like?

come to think of it what was it like from Norway to Sweden? Was there a railway?

[Randell Daigre]

Were there good railway lines running from Norway/Sweden to Finland at the time? IRRC the terrain along that route is pretty bad.

I suppose such railways could be considered to have been built after the start of the war if the Axis were to capture both Sweden and Norway. They almost certainly would have done so if they could have. Would such a thing have been feasible, though?

Thinking about this reminds me of similar wartime efforts that did take place. The Allied supply route into China from India and the Japanese railway through Burma come to mind. Both of these efforts met with only marginal success. I wonder if it wouldn't be cheaper (and easier) to clear the Baltic Sea of enemies (or at least keep them at arm's length with escorts) and just send the troops by ship.

[Norse]

Originally posted by Randell Daigre:

Were there good railway lines running from Norway/Sweden to Finland at the time? IRRC the terrain along that route is pretty bad.

I suppose such railways could be considered to have been built after the start of the war if the Axis were to capture both Sweden and Norway. They almost certainly would have done so if they could have. Would such a thing have been feasible, though?

In Norway, the railroad between Oslo and Bergen stood ready in 1909. There were other railroads around, but none that went all the way to Finnmark (the most northern county, which is the one that borders Finland and Russland).

When the Germans came, they used prisoners of war to extend the railroads to the north but the war ended too soon and they never finished.

There were 3 railroad links between Norway and Sweeden, one running from Narvik and to Sweeden (irrelevant, since it stopped at Narvik, which isn't even on the map in this game).

The two other railroad links went from Oslo to Gothenburg (Gøteborg) and beyond, and another from Oslo to Stockholm.

The railroad links within Sweeden went both up and down, and one of them connected Stockholm to the Finnish capital Helsinki. This railroad continued into Leningrad and beyond.

There were also some other railroads that went into the Murmansk / Karelia area from Finland, and from there continued into Sovjet.

-

I think that if a side controls Sweeden and Finland, then they should be allowed to operate units back and forth.

But if a player controls Norway and Finland, then they should not be allowed to operate units, because they must use Sweeden's railroads.

But if a player controls Norway, Finland and Sweeden, then they should be allowed to freely operate units back and forth, because the railroads were in place to do this.

Anyone with comments or arguments as to why this shouldn't be allowed at all?

~Norse~

[SS Viking]

Originally posted by Norse:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Randell Daigre:

Were there good railway lines running from Norway/Sweden to Finland at the time? IRRC the terrain along that route is pretty bad.

I suppose such railways could be considered to have been built after the start of the war if the Axis were to capture both Sweden and Norway. They almost certainly would have done so if they could have. Would such a thing have been feasible, though?

In Norway, the railroad between Oslo and Bergen stood ready in 1909. There were other railroads around, but none that went all the way to Finnmark (the most northern county, which is the one that borders Finland and Russland).

When the Germans came, they used prisoners of war to extend the railroads to the north but the war ended too soon and they never finished.

There were 3 railroad links between Norway and Sweeden, one running from Narvik and to Sweeden (irrelevant, since it stopped at Narvik, which isn't even on the map in this game).

The two other railroad links went from Oslo to Gothenburg (Gøteborg) and beyond, and another from Oslo to Stockholm.

The railroad links within Sweeden went both up and down, and one of them connected Stockholm to the Finnish capital Helsinki. This railroad continued into Leningrad and beyond.

There were also some other railroads that went into the Murmansk / Karelia area from Finland, and from there continued into Sovjet.

-

I think that if a side controls Sweeden and Finland, then they should be allowed to operate units back and forth.

But if a player controls Norway and Finland, then they should not be allowed to operate units, because they must use Sweeden's railroads.

But if a player controls Norway, Finland and Sweeden, then they should be allowed to freely operate units back and forth, because the railroads were in place to do this.

Anyone with comments or arguments as to why this shouldn't be allowed at all?

~Norse~</font>

[Canuck_para]

Viking, since you have an interest in Sweden and WW2 maybe you could help me out. I am trying to find out info on the Swedish navy during the war. What ships did they have and what were the names of the bigger ships?

[SS Viking]

Originally posted by Canuck_para:

Viking, since you have an interest in Sweden and WW2 maybe you could help me out. I am trying to find out info on the Swedish navy during the war. What ships did they have and what were the names of the bigger ships?

Hi! Good question, but hard to answer. The reason is that Sweden before the war exaggerated it's strength to scare of potential enemies. We did it so good that it is, in fact, hard even today to get reliable info. Anyway, we was just a paper tiger w/out strength to resist even a small invation. On the other hand, in the end of the war we had I mordern and strong army, navy and airforce with a lot of newly purchased equipment.

I'll give you an answer but I first need you to tell me that year/time during WWII you mean. Because as I said, 1939 and 1945 was like to different navys.

Also regarding operational moves. Germany did move its troops on our railways through Sweden during the war, despite the fact we was "neutral".

They did this almost at will and it was mostly inf. transports to Finland.

/Eric

[Canuck_para]

Originally posted by SS Viking:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Canuck_para:

Viking, since you have an interest in Sweden and WW2 maybe you could help me out. I am trying to find out info on the Swedish navy during the war. What ships did they have and what were the names of the bigger ships?

Hi! Good question, but hard to answer. The reason is that Sweden before the war exaggerated it's strength to scare of potential enemies. We did it so good that it is, in fact, hard even today to get reliable info. Anyway, we was just a paper tiger w/out strength to resist even a small invation. On the other hand, in the end of the war we had I mordern and strong army, navy and airforce with a lot of newly purchased equipment.

I'll give you an answer but I first need you to tell me that year/time during WWII you mean. Because as I said, 1939 and 1945 was like to different navys.

Also regarding operational moves. Germany did move its troops on our railways through Sweden during the war, despite the fact we was "neutral".

They did this almost at will and it was mostly inf. transports to Finland.

/Eric</font>

[Norse]

Canuk Para, please make another thread to discuss the Sweedish navy.

Well then I think we have this down. The Norwegian volenteers were operated with the Germans from Norway to Finland, and I belive the Sweedish government let the Germans do this as part of their diplomatic move to avoid invasion. The railroads were already built and in place to allow units to be operated around.

Hubert, do you need us to dig up some historical examples of this, or will you think about making it possible to operate units between Norway, Sweeden and Finland?

I still would like to hear someone argument why exactely this shouldn't be allowed. Would it mess up the playbalance?

~Norse~

[Old Patch]

I covered the Sweedish navy inb detail in a previous post (can't remeber the name right now). IF Canick_para would like more info please start a new thread and I will bore your ears off with details.

[Randell Daigre]

Posted by SS Viking:

The reason is that Sweden before the war exaggerated it's strength to scare of potential enemies. We did it so good that it is, in fact, hard even today to get reliable info. Anyway, we was just a paper tiger w/out strength to resist even a small invation.

Uh oh! Maybe the beginning strength of the Swedish military shouldn't have been increased from its original levels, after all.

Norse:

From everything that has been said here, it would seem that the only thing that should prevent you from operating troops from Norway to Finland is an *enemy* Sweden.