Schutze Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 I downloaded the demo last week, and have had quite a few goes at it. The game has some good points, then some points that irk me to no end. Then...there are questions I have that may help settle my problems. Aircraft versus surface vessels: Early WWII surface vessels had very poor defences against aircraft. Even the Bismarck who had a very large Flak outfit was crippled by a lowly Fairey Swordfish. The Brits were far behind the Germans in flak direction/control/number and quality of AA weapons Submarines versus surface vessels: Battleships and cruisers had nothing in the way of AS weapons. Is it a given that subs are taking damage from escorting destroyers? RAF raids on mainland Europe: Except for some harrassing attacks by fighter bomber units, the RAF discovered at the battle of Heligoland Bight that daylight raids on Europe were pure folly. The Germans were to discover the cost during the BOB. RAF night raids did nothing to hamper production other than displace workers from the homes they'd firebombed HQ's: I've yet to discover how these help, or how you can assign units to them. Help, please:) The cost of Subs: How can a submarine with a crew of 45, weighing in at a few hundred tonnes cost almost half as much as a battleship? Retaining experience: I've tried rebuilding units slowly, a point at a time and see no different result to just filling them up. All in all, I'm not certain I'll purchase this game. For me, it's a bit too close to Axis and Allies. Can anybody help here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSNEED Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 It is a great game in its self accept it fo what it is, Hubert IS constantly listening and adding reader changes to it so it is a growing game . Why would you hesitate to shell out $25.000 for SOOOO many hours of enetertainment??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslingr3 Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Aircraft versus surface vessels: Early WWII surface vessels had very poor defences against aircraft. Even the Bismarck who had a very large Flak outfit was crippled by a lowly Fairey Swordfish. Air power will quickly reduce naval units, particularly once you get your air fleets some experience. Submarines versus surface vessels: Battleships and cruisers had nothing in the way of AS weapons. Is it a given that subs are taking damage from escorting destroyers? Keep in mind the game is abstracting the elements of WW2. I never looked at one of the battleship counters as just one ship. I think the Royal Navy had more than what would otherwise be represented. RAF raids on mainland Europe: Except for some harrassing attacks by fighter bomber units, the RAF discovered at the battle of Heligoland Bight that daylight raids on Europe were pure folly. The Germans were to discover the cost during the BOB. RAF night raids did nothing to hamper production other than displace workers from the homes they'd firebombed Handled by abstraction as well. Consider those initial daylight raids experience gathering. Higher experience units will start to get much better loss ratios during strategic bombing. HQ's: I've yet to discover how these help, or how you can assign units to them. Help, please:) HQ's are points of supply. Supply level of the hexes your units are in is part of determining their readiness, which determines what percentage of their strength makes it to the fight. These are extremely important for naval invasions (until you secure a port) or for attacks against the USSR with scorched earth rules in effect. HQ's also gain experience and provide a morale bonus to units under their control. Control is apparently determined during the supply phase and is automatic. If the unit is within a few hexes of the HQ, and of the same nationality (and not a minor) it is under the control of the HQ. The HQ can control up to 5 units. The cost of Subs: How can a submarine with a crew of 45, weighing in at a few hundred tonnes cost almost half as much as a battleship? The unit you see on the 'board' is an abstraction. It represents submarine strength, not simply U-30, etc. Retaining experience: I've tried rebuilding units slowly, a point at a time and see no different result to just filling them up. This was addressed in a patch. Not sure if the demo you played includes this adjustment, but it's much easier to repair units and not lose enormous amounts of experience. The AI improvements in the last patch have given it more legs. Expect a more aggressive opponent than in the demo. Gunslinger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiith Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Schutze, I'll try and answer your questions. Aircraft versus surface vessels: Early WWII surface vessels had very poor defences against aircraft. Even the Bismarck who had a very large Flak outfit was crippled by a lowly Fairey Swordfish. The Brits were far behind the Germans in flak direction/control/number and quality of AA weapons I can't see the question but I'm assuming that you think planes aren't that great against ships? As you have the demo try moving the French fleet up to bombard the germans in the low countries. The French fleet gets decimated by the land based bombers every time. Submarines versus surface vessels: Battleships and cruisers had nothing in the way of AS weapons. Is it a given that subs are taking damage from escorting destroyers? Yes I'd take that as give also. RAF raids on mainland Europe: Except for some harrassing attacks by fighter bomber units, the RAF discovered at the battle of Heligoland Bight that daylight raids on Europe were pure folly. I'm assuming again that you feel that the RAF is over performing in this game? I just can't see this as from my point of view Strat bombing is costing the Bristish more (in terms of production) that the Germans and I feel that is accurate. HQ's: I've yet to discover how these help, or how you can assign units to them. Help, please:) They are critical they boost readiness and supply for friendly units, but you are right they can't be assgned to friendly units, the units that they get are chosen by the computer The cost of Subs: How can a submarine with a crew of 45, weighing in at a few hundred tonnes cost almost half as much as a battleship? I think you have to think about the big picture, a sub counter isn't a sub it could represent 20-100 subs (Italy in 1940 had over 100 subs but only gets the one counter). While a battleship counter is 1-2 BB and few CL and a dozen DD. I see the costs as about right and well balanced in terms of game play. Retaining experience: I've tried rebuilding units slowly, a point at a time and see no different result to just filling them up.I've tried do that way too It makes sense thou you have an experienced unit at half strength and strengthen it with green troops it doesn't mater if you strength in slowly or quickly unless you see combat your still going to have a unit of 50% vets and 50% greens. I hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiith Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Beat me by 2 mins Gunslingr3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norse Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 This is the size porportions that this game goes by: 1 corps is 1 man (since that's what the icon shows) 1 army is 3 men (just look at that icon, show's 3 men to me!) An airfleet is 1 plane A subpack is 1 sub A hq is one guy papershuffling for his dear life 'nuff said ~Norse~ [ August 18, 2002, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Norse ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiith Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Remind me never to play against your in a PBEM game Norse as I'm using jmbunnelles mod my army only has 2 men in it. So your army must be 50% better that mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randell Daigre Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Yeah, but they're bigger, and all your stuff has camo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norse Posted August 19, 2002 Share Posted August 19, 2002 Ah they got camo? That's alright, my man got handgrenades!! btw, to all who doesn't understand what this is about, it is an irony to all the posts about "battleships didn't have anti-sub weapons" "how can 1 battleship kill my 1 sub, unrealistic!!" lol Im bad, bite me :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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