Casualties and cover questions

[caralampio]

Hi,

Does friendly fire (aside from mistaken air attacks) cause casualties to your own troops? I mean like smallarms if friendlies are in the line of fire.

Does having height advantage give any cover? How about infantry behind a crest, in a gully, etc. where only the upper half of their bodies is visible to the enemy?

[The Commissar]

One time, when I sent a wave attack against suppressed enemy positions, the machine guns doing the suppressions seemed[/] to have cut down some of my own men. I say "seemed" because while I did not see any of the suppressed enemy fire at my men, it could have been a multitude of other things including mines, mortars, random fire from some unit I didnt yet see, etc.

And as for "bodies only half way visible" providing cover, that simply doesn't work. The thing you see in CM are only a graphical representation and not the actual exact duplicate of what is going on "under the hood". Try increasing the size of your men to Size 4, and they will look like their whole body is exposed. Decrease it to Size 1, and they may very well look like they are completely hidden. The only way to find out is with a LOS line to the enemy. Usually, if youre in a depression in open ground, and the enemy is shooting at you, you dont get much cover at all. Now, if you're in a foxhole, its a whole 'nother story.

[Cinnamon J. Scudworth]

Friendly fire is modeled in the game. I'm not sure about the height advantage. Where you say "only the upper half of their bodies are visible to the enemy" remember that the three men shown are only a representation of what's actually happening. So just because the three little guys only have the upper half of their bodies exposed, it does not mean that every man in the squad or team is in such a position.

-Andrew

(Grrr to you and your faster fingers, Commissar)

[ 05-20-2001: Message edited by: Mirage2k ]

[SenorBeef]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by caralampio:

Hi,

Does friendly fire (aside from mistaken air attacks) cause casualties to your own troops? I mean like smallarms if friendlies are in the line of fire.

Does having height advantage give any cover? How about infantry behind a crest, in a gully, etc. where only the upper half of their bodies is visible to the enemy?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe, no and no.

For the first one, friendly MG grazing fire might have an effect, but regular squad firepower doesn't, as far as I've ever noticed.

There was a big discussion a while back (search for "Are hill crests cover?") about height advantages and such. They're simply not modelled. The only advantage to height is observation.

This has nothing to do with the fact that the graphic representation of the soldiers is variable (as was stated above), but simply that they don't have the extra code to account for it. Squads ARE abstracted, but they could still be modelled to get abstract cover bonuses from crests and such. But to your answer your question, they don't.

[offtaskagain]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by caralampio:

Hi,

Does friendly fire (aside from mistaken air attacks) cause casualties to your own troops? I mean like smallarms if friendlies are in the line of fire.

Does having height advantage give any cover? How about infantry behind a crest, in a gully, etc. where only the upper half of their bodies is visible to the enemy?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FF is definitely modeled. Try running a squad near a place where an MG is area firing at. They crap their pants and run, with the occasional casualty.

[Wolfpack]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SenorBeef:

There was a big discussion a while back (search for "Are hill crests cover?") about height advantages and such. They're simply not modelled. The only advantage to height is observation.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wouldn't say that observation is the only advantage. If you can get your men that close to the top of the hill, heavy direct fire weapons have a big tendency to overshoot, since they're aiming a a very small point. I've had this happen in countless games, I had a priest shoot at a mortar and MG sitting just on the crest of a hill for 3 turns without scoring a hit until they finally took him out. But you're correct that there is no cover bonus.

[caralampio]

Speaking of friendly fire, every time I get air support I cry, OH NO! I haven't played with air support that much (maybe about 10 or 12 times) but the general impression I get is that they kill more of my own guys than the enemy's. Has anybody figured out what the rate of good/mistaken air attacks is? About 50-50?

[Michael Emrys]

I suspect the secret to good air support is to plan on a very long game, 60 turns say. Then keep your own troops well back on your side of the board until the planes have shot off all their stores. Then and only then begin your advance.

Of course, if the planes get lost on the way and don't show up until turn 55, you've pretty well blown the battle, haven't you?

Michael

[mrspkr2]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by caralampio:

Has anybody figured out what the rate of good/mistaken air attacks is? About 50-50?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know about the ratio, but I do know the mistaken attacks is impacted by the experience level of the Jabo.

In a current scenario, I am attacking across a largely wooded map. My guys are about 35m fromt eh enemy, who is in a 20m wide swath of trees.

My opponent ran a platoon across about 30m of open ground to reinforce his line and got jumped on by three Jabos. He lost about a third of his platoon while I lost nary a single man.

The Jabos were crack or elite quality, I forget which. . .

The poster formerly known as MrSpkr