Another artillery idea for CMBB

[Fuerte]

I don't remember how many times I have moved the artillery target just to find out that it costs me 2 or 3 minutes, and then I have aborted the game and loaded it again, moved the target a shorter distance, and if the delay is still too great, restart the game etc.

What if CMBB could show the delay in real time when moving the target point? Or is this already done?

Also it would be great if the approximate artillery radius was displayed as well. I have almost never used the Target Wide command, partly because I have no experience of how big the radius will be.

[Michael Emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fuerte:

What if CMBB could show the delay in real time when moving the target point? Or is this already done?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well,sort of. If you watch the taget line while you move it, if you move it more than a specified distance (200 meters?), it will change colors from bright green to medium blue. This indicates that the delay in resuming the fire mission will be more than a few seconds, that indeed the whole countdown will have to begin again. So you can save yourself some restarts by watching that target line and keeping it in the green.

Michael

[offtaskagain]

Target wide with Nebelwerfers can be a *very* bad idea. They tend to cover the whole map. Target wide with the big guns (150mm and up) can actually be useful as the shells are a little too accurate and tend to bombard the exact same point, totally destroying the one platoon in the area but not really catching much else. With wide they can cause problems for a whole company.

[Fuerte]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys:

Well,sort of. If you watch the taget line while you move it, if you move it more than a specified distance (200 meters?), it will change colors from bright green to medium blue. This indicates that the delay in resuming the fire mission will be more than a few seconds, that indeed the whole countdown will have to begin again. So you can save yourself some restarts by watching that target line and keeping it in the green.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, but different artillery units behave differently. In the game I am playing right now, I have some British artillery, and moving the target just about 20 meters caused a 40 second delay! Usually smaller artillery is faster, and so on. Knowing the exact delay before clicking the new target would be user-friendly.

Also knowing the artillery radius beforehand, it would make the game easier for beginners. There are a lot of different artillery types, I know now how 155 mm, 105 mm and mortars behave, but I have no idea of most of the Axis and British artillery. I guess that there is a list somewhere in the internet, but again the game could be more user-friendly here.

[Madmatt]

Actually we took care of this as well. A very simple and elegant solution which I will disclose soon.

Madmatt

[offtaskagain]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt:

Actually we took care of this as well. A very simple and elegant solution which I will disclose soon.

Madmatt<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Will the teasing ever end? I seriously spend most of my day thinking of CMBO and CMBB. This is just driving me even farther from the real world.

[LGMB]

Soldiers,

I hope the sulution agreed upon was the raduis/second time display, as that seems like a great idea.

[Michael Emrys]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fuerte:

Yes, but different artillery units behave differently. In the game I am playing right now, I have some British artillery, and moving the target just about 20 meters caused a 40 second delay! Usually smaller artillery is faster, and so on. Knowing the exact delay before clicking the new target would be user-friendly.

Also knowing the artillery radius beforehand, it would make the game easier for beginners. There are a lot of different artillery types, I know now how 155 mm, 105 mm and mortars behave, but I have no idea of most of the Axis and British artillery. I guess that there is a list somewhere in the internet, but again the game could be more user-friendly here.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most of what you are asking for can only be learned intuitively through play of CMBO, though I too eagerly await the revelations of the Bald One.

Generally speaking, it is as you say, mainly a matter of the caliber of the firing battery, with the smaller stuff having a smaller CEP and being faster responding. But something else to look out for is whether you are moving the targetting point to a location where the FO does not have an LOS. That will effectively double the response time.

Michael

[Fuerte]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Madmatt:

Actually we took care of this as well. A very simple and elegant solution which I will disclose soon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Huh, great! Can't wait, but I must.

[Tero]

Originally posted by Michael emrys:

Generally speaking, it is as you say, mainly a matter of the caliber of the firing battery, with the smaller stuff having a smaller CEP and being faster responding. But something else to look out for is whether you are moving the targetting point to a location where the FO does not have an LOS. That will effectively double the response time.

However I find it extremely ridiculous and frustrating to incur a 2 minute retargeting penalty for moving the hot spot some distance from the original targeting spot which has already been fired on. Say, 100 meters to the west.

I can understand a shift from one edge of the map to another in a 3000 pt game with a wide map but 100 meters from a target which has already been fired on for crying out loud. For that you do NOT have to turn the guns around 359º, only turn the wheel a turn or so (depending on the range of course).

Yes, I am an arty puke.

[Michael Emrys]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tero:

However I find it extremely ridiculous and frustrating to incur a 2 minute retargeting penalty for moving the hot spot some distance from the original targeting spot which has already been fired on. Say, 100 meters to the west.

I can understand a shift from one edge of the map to another in a 3000 pt game with a wide map but 100 meters from a target which has already been fired on for crying out loud. For that you do NOT have to turn the guns around 359º, only turn the wheel a turn or so (depending on the range of course).<hr></blockquote>

You are, of course, entirely correct.

Michael

[Slapdragon]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Michael emrys:

You are, of course, entirely correct.

Michael<hr></blockquote>

I agree with regards toi a retarget from one shot that is in LOS to anotrher shot that is in LOS, but not for out of LOS-shots. Here the FO is firing based upon passed information or sounds, or dust clouds, or even the map and intuition. Since the rounds cannot be seen to be called, the process would naturally take longer to assure a safety factor.

In fact out of LOS shots may be to easy to do now.

[Tero]

Originally posted by Slapdragon:

I agree with regards toi a retarget from one shot that is in LOS to anotrher shot that is in LOS, but not for out of LOS-shots. Here the FO is firing based upon passed information or sounds, or dust clouds, or even the map and intuition. Since the rounds cannot be seen to be called, the process would naturally take longer to assure a safety factor.

You are mixing things here. Directing fire is one thing, call it in is another. Once you have given the coordinates for the initial fire mission and it takes X minutes to start falling the direction bit is simple "XXX meters to here/there, XXX meters up/down. That is irrespective of the LOS to the actual target area and realistically it should not take that long to adjust it if the adjustments do not require any recalculation or large motions of the gun.

In fact out of LOS shots may be to easy to do now.

I'd like to see no spotting rounds for the out of LOS fire as it is pointless. But there could be more uncertainty in the impact position. But again directing it should not be affected.

[Spook]

One veteran poster here, "Bullethead," brought up an interesting point that may happen when targeting on or near a target reference point marker (simulating "preregistered" fire). If, on a later turn, the target line is adjusted by even a small distance, the "clock" may reset to its maximum delay, although the "green line" is still showing.

I never got around to confirming this. But if true, it does seem a bit ludricous. At least per Bullethead's added argument, if moving off of a target reference point is going to is going to cause a "re-clock," at least show a blue line instead of a green line.

Bullet's final point, however, was that under such a circumstance, target reference points are thus of minimal utility. One could apply with the hope that enemy troops come nearby, but often is the case that they don't come close enough without some targeting adjustment. Therefore, one just might as well not bother to use, and plot instead on nonregistered areas that are easier to adjust from.

All of the above is given with some speculation, because again, I haven't confirmed yet. But I think it timely to mention it here in this topic, if someone else has seen this behavior, and to discuss if future CM versions will rectify this.

(BTW, Slap, nice sig, though it would more qualified to be called "Ezekiel 25:17 per Samuel Jackson." )

[Tero]

Originally posted by Spook:

All of the above is given with some speculation, because again, I haven't confirmed yet. But I think it timely to mention it here in this topic, if someone else has seen this behavior, and to discuss if future CM versions will rectify this.

I have seen it and regarded it as a normal CM phenomenon.

If done properly there should be a separate Adjust command which appears after the FO has given a Target command and the fire for effect has started. And the barrage should be limited to a preselect number of rounds. That way any gamey uses of the Adjust command could be avoided as each fire mission would be a limited, separate entity. Firing on a previous target should get benefits of course.

The current absolute target spot with too limited margins for adjustment is a bit too restrictive in a world of abstractions and approximations.

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: tero ]</p>