Wesy Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 I downloaded CM Demo and it's really really incredible. So incredible I'm going to upgrade my home machine. It also runs well on Win2k. So if we ever get to CM PTO (and have a scenario editor where you can mix and match forces across theaters), do you think this would take out a Sherman or a tiger? From the Good ship Yamato (One of three turrets, each with three of these beasts firing HE and/or AP) Bore 18.1 inches Weight 162.4 tons Length OA 831.9 inches Weight Projectile 3219 lbs. Muzzle Velocity 2559 ft/s Max. Elevation +45/-5 degrees Max. Range 45,960 yards Rate of Fire 2/min ------------------ If all men are brothers, like the seas throughout the world; So why do winds and waves clash so fiercely?" - Emperor Hirohito (1940) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wesy: From the Good ship Yamato <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> The ship was so good, it sits on the bottom of the sea. Could have, would have, should have. I'll tkae the IOWA Class any day. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesy Posted December 1, 2000 Author Share Posted December 1, 2000 Dr Brian, Yeah all things being equal in a gun fight at the OK Corral, I'd probably take an Iowa Class. Faster, Radar assisted gunnery, better damage control... In regards to sitting at the bottom of the ocean, no ship is unsinkable, and quite frankly it was overwhelmed by hundreds of aircraft. Yes it did have issues, but the merits of this paticular ship can't directly be based on it's sinking. Look at IJN Heavy cruisers, ship for ship, far better than what the USN had. Are they sitting on the bottom of the Ocean - yes... ------------------ If all men are brothers, like the seas throughout the world; So why do winds and waves clash so fiercely?" - Emperor Hirohito (1940) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 While we do not have the Yamamoto's 18" guns, we do have 14" Naval Artillery. The 14"ers are the nearest approximation to the expressed hand of God I have ever seen. Note that you need the full version to get them. WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wesy: and quite frankly it was overwhelmed by hundreds of aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Umm, hundreds? Whoa! I thought it was more like 74. In any event, it wasn't HIT hundreds of times. In fact, you could count them on both hands. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wesy: but the merits of this paticular ship can't directly be based on it's sinking. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Merits? What merits? In sea trials? It didn't do much. In fact, did it do anything at all? Basically, if you look at the number of battle flags she carried, she has none (shore bombardments don't count). <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wesy: Look at IJN Heavy cruisers, ship for ship, far better than what the USN had. Are they sitting on the bottom of the Ocean - yes... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Early. Yes. Basically, due to torpedo load and night training (my opinion here). Later in the war, radar made the IJN crusiers obsolete. Plus, good old American aggressive commanders became better. Pound for pound, Americans had better fire control and damage control. That Wes, is what makes a better ship. Again, my opinions. Thanks for bringing the topic up. It was a bit refreshing. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesy Posted December 1, 2000 Author Share Posted December 1, 2000 Umm, hundreds? Whoa! I thought it was more like 74. In any event, it wasn't HIT hundreds of times. In fact, you could count them on both hands. Doc (if I may call you that), here's the data that I have...At 1235, Vice Admiral Ito's Attack Force (consisting of the following: YAMATO, DesRon 2's light cruiser YAHAGI, DesDiv 17: ISOKAZE, HAMAKAZE, YUKIKAZE, DesDiv 21: KASUMI, HATSUSHIMO, ASASHIMO, DesDiv 41: FUYUZUKI and SUZUTSUKI)encounters the first wave of 280 aircraft (132 fighters, 50 bombers, 98 torpedo planes) from Task Group 58. 1: USS HORNET (CV-12), HANCOCK (CV-19), BENNINGTON (CV-20), BELLEAU WOOD (CVL-24), SAN JACINTO (CVL-30), and Task Group 58. 3: USS ESSEX (CV-9), BUNKER HILL (CV-17), BATAAN (CVL-24), and CABOT (CVL-28). At 1342, the Attack Force is engaged by another 110 aircraft from Task Group 58. 4: USS YORKTOWN (CV-10), INTREPID (CV-11), LANGLEY (CVL-27). As an example of what this class of bb's were capable...Her sister ship the Musashi was hit: 11-19 aerial torpedoes, at least 17 bombs. Not to mention all the near misses Merits? What merits? In sea trials? It didn't do much. In fact, did it do anything at all? Basically, if you look at the number of battle flags she carried, she has none (shore bombardments don't count). In regards to merits, one can question the tactical/strategic implementation or it's design goals/objectives. Was it a white elephant relative to the changing nature of fleet engagements post 1941. I would agree. However, for what it was designed for, the "decisive battle" ie. read surface engagements, which were rare outside of the solomons, I would debate the ship had it's merits. Could anyone ask for a more stable gun platform? Would the resources the Japanese allocated to this ship be better spent elsewhere? Sure, like building far more destroyers/escort vessels and aircraft carriers. Early. Yes. Basically, due to torpedo load and night training (my opinion here). Later in the war, radar made the IJN crusiers obsolete. Plus, good old American aggressive commanders became better. Pound for pound, Americans had better fire control and damage control. That Wes, is what makes a better ship. Again, my opinions I would concur on torped load and night training/optics. Post 1943, the Japanese were at distinct disadvantage via Radar, however, the Japanese were being overwhelmed by the sheer nature of the building programs of the USN and it's dominance of the skies. They were also limited by fuel constraints (which reduces, training and operational abilities) and the general nature of attrition. I agree with you that fire/damage control are very important, but Japanese damage control improved as the war progressed. However, all ships have pro's and con's. Japanese CAs - heavy main armament and awesome torpedoes, mediocre fire control/radar, optics - downsides, poor mid range aa (all japanese ships). Nothing in between 5" AA and 25mm. USN, awesome 5" batteries, Proxmity Fuse, Radar/firecontrol/damagecontrol. No torpedoes, lacksadasical (sp?) training early in the war. smaller in displacement (CAs) Training is very, very, very important. You can take mediocre equipment if it's used correctly by incredibly trained personel you can overcome your equipment deficincies assuming your opponnet isn't on par with you. This is a fun debate! ------------------ If all men are brothers, like the seas throughout the world; So why do winds and waves clash so fiercely?" - Emperor Hirohito (1940) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Wes, What is your "source?" Back to merits … I still have to stand by what it accomplished … and that is not very much. But that's how I view a ships merits. Have a good weekend! ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted December 4, 2000 Share Posted December 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wesy: ... So if we ever get to CM PTO ...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>... in the next decade or so, at best. Anyway, I'm eagerly awaiting CM3! Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesy Posted December 4, 2000 Author Share Posted December 4, 2000 Doc, Here's my source, http://www.combinedfleet.com. Glad to see another naval buff out there. CM is awesome, but, I'd really like something that simulated fleet action (yeah I know that fighting steel is out there, but it doesnt quite make it for me.) Really engoyed Carriers at War though. Check Combined fleet out, it really is a great reference site. ------------------ If all men are brothers, like the seas throughout the world; So why do winds and waves clash so fiercely?" - Emperor Hirohito (1940) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Brian Posted December 4, 2000 Share Posted December 4, 2000 Wesy, Thanks for the reference. A good book you make like is The Pacific War, which I believe is by Costello. ------------------ Doc God Bless Chesty Puller, Wherever He Is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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