Viperflier Posted February 14, 2000 Share Posted February 14, 2000 This was heavily discussed a few weeks ago but I thought I'd throw in some new supporting info. I was down at the Patton museum at Fort Knox with the commander of the 1st Tank of the 172nd, 86th Brigade. We hooked up with the curator and were able to get a hands on tour of some of the statics on display. During the course of our tour I asked him about the traverse rates for the German tanks. He said pretty much across the board that 11 degrees per second was the average. This really didn't vary much regardless of engine RPM (almost all these museum tanks are operational) or which German tank it was. The American tanks come in around 20 to 25 degrees per second but did seem to have more variance depending upon specific model. Lastly, the American TD's they had were all manual traverse and pretty darn slow using Armstrong to crank that 3" naval gun around. The tour was awesome and I learned more about WW2 armor in two hours than I'd ever picked up from the many books I'd read. Quite a few of these tanks had taken some battle damage and it was very interesting to see the actual effects that rounds produced. The King Tiger was very impressive. It is one massive hunk of steel but a side shot from a 76mm would definitely have a decent penetration chance. If it did penetrate, it would strike into the ammo stowage so had a decent chance of 'brewing' up this huge beast. The 88mm is massive. It fills up a lot more space than a modern 105 or 120 does. I'm shooting from the hip but think this was the 88L71 and the Tiger 1 had the 88L56. After this tour, I'm definitely getting more and more psyched for the final version of CM. Merlin VTANG F-16 Driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 15, 2000 Share Posted February 15, 2000 I find it curious that the curator would say that since the linking of traverse to rpms is well documented for many tank variants. Is there any chance he was showing you a late-model Panther or Pz IV at the time he made these statements and was confining them to those models instead of all German tanks? Some of the late-models had traverses powered by battery which could be independent of engine RPM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperflier Posted February 15, 2000 Author Share Posted February 15, 2000 Hi Fionn, My question was directed toward the Ausf G Panther and the King Tiger. I really should have pursued it concerning other Marks but it didn't occur to me at the time. Interestingly, the Panther they have on display is the Panther II chassis with a Panther I turret. The body was sent over at the end of the war sans turret and the museum plunked a spare turret onto it. Sorry I couldn't get any better info for you. I may e-mail the museum for more data. He had quite a bit of info right on hand, I just need to ask the right questions. Take care, Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted February 15, 2000 Share Posted February 15, 2000 Aha . I thought it'd turn out to be that. The Panther G had a little battery-operated traverse engine which allowed it to traverse independently of the engine RPMs so long as the battery was juiced. I'm pretty sure that the G could also run off the engine but I'm not 100% sure of that. I'm pretty sure the King Tiger also had a little engine as did the Pz IV H. That's why I asked if it was late-model Panthers or IVs. No need to apologise Viperflier.. It's always great to hear about real-life impressions of the tanks. I SO have to go to one of those museums and clamber around one of those hunks of steel .. *sigh* If I ever make it to the states the Patton Museum would be on my stoplist. I know a couple of guys who are restoring a Stuart for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 15, 2000 Share Posted February 15, 2000 If you come into my backyard at the Patton Museum (109 miles away from me!) you damn well better stop up for a visit! I will be honest though, while the Patton museum has nice stuff for purely historical value their presentations leave MUCH to be desired. It all just appears to be thrown together and there was very little care given to lighting and proper display. Of course it has been 2 years since I last visted and I am planning on doing so again in the next few weeks now that CM has energized my museum bug. Now for the BEST military museum that I have EVER been too in or out of States would have to be the Wright Patterson Air Force Base in DAyton Ohio, (45 miles from my driveway!) I was just up there this past Sunday and got to talking with a vet who helped desing the fuel and hydrolics (JP-7 I think) for the SR-71. Man did he have some wonderful stories. That museum is just awesome, here is a shortlist of what they have: SR-71 F-117 Several of the retired Air Force Ones B-52 with battle damage marked out ME-262 FW-190 D (longnose Dirty Dora) B-17G B-29 (Boxcar the one that dropped the nuke on Nagasaki)+ A B-29 Fuselage section you can walk through "Command Decission" the first Jet bomber Ace. F-16's with a full cockpit simulater of a Block 50 F-16 you can sit in and play with all the knobs.. Pair of A-10's Mig 17,19,21,15, and a brand new Mig-27 outside Fokker D triplane Albatros B-25 B-24 P-51 plus that weird experminetal twin-P51 (two p51-mushed together, VERY odd with tandem cockpits) p-47's Hurricanes set up in a cool little BOB diorama Spitfires Big IMAX theater Lots of free little video presentations all over the place, like the awesome Kamikaze video. Historical recordings of speaches and events. Hundreds and hundreds of great displays of weapons models, pictures, traveling displays, just a great place to spend a weekend and its FREE to the Public plus you get tons of friendly and talkative VEts willing to help out answer questions or even tell the odd tale or two. Even if airpower isnt your thing this is still just an awesome spectacle of military information and history. Like I said the single GREATEST military museum that I have visted IMO. The Imperial War Musuem in London would be a very close second, which was also great. ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark IV Posted February 15, 2000 Share Posted February 15, 2000 It seems to me Wright-Pat also had an Opel Rocket, the rocket-propelled fighter the Germans tried to develop near the end of the war. Been a long time, but I probably have snapshots somewhere- truly a great museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viperflier Posted February 15, 2000 Author Share Posted February 15, 2000 The Wright Patt museum is definitely worth the trip. It even has a B-57 from our unit in it. I could roam around in there for days. Merlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Madmatt Posted February 15, 2000 Share Posted February 15, 2000 I dont remember seeing the Opel, I thought they had an Me-163 Komet although I didn't have time to get a good look at it! I will check when I get home. I joined the museum as a member ($24 bucks for a year! Great Deal!) and they give you this nice thick book listing ALL the exhibits and planes and it has much more detailed info about the exhibits. Plus you get 20% off all the Merchandise (good since the books and videos are VERY expensive there although they have a good collection), a real nice Calandar, a cool membership card and they even send you a framed certificate of membership! Good deal for just about twenty bucks! Madmatt out! ------------------ If it's in Combat Mission, it's on Combat Mission HQ! combathq.thegamers.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Zeares Posted February 16, 2000 Share Posted February 16, 2000 I've been to the Air Force Museum once, about 16 years ago. Truly an awesome experience. I was about 14 at the time. I stood in shock under the B-36, amazed that this behemoth could actually fly. I think the museum also has the only existing B-70, on the outside display. Weird looking plane. I kick myself regularly for not visiting the Patton Museum while I was in Basic at Ft. Knox. -- Mike Zeares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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