I/O Error Posted December 10, 2000 Share Posted December 10, 2000 Perhaps a system of Rules of Engagement? "Fire only when fired upon" "Open fire only when the enemy is within a certain range" etc. Does anyone else think it could be possible (and practical) to code such a thing? Would be a nice addition, if nothing else... [This message has been edited by I/O Error (edited 12-10-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 M. Bates wrote: > Surely this is a problem with the engine! > Why can't two groups of opposing soldiers face each other at a distance without them wasting ammo! Soldiers in CM will not fire unless they are within effective range. At long range only the squad support weapon will fire, for example. It's not wrong for men to open fire if they see the enemy maneuvring. If you were them, would you want to try and disrupt or demoralise the enemy while he is preparing to engage, or wait until he's right on top of you? In certain circumstances the behaviour of your men will be helpful; in other circumstances it will screw things up for you. This is true of all different kinds of behaviour, and is realistic. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 In real conditions, a squad-level officer would hopefully know to let the enemy get within effective range, not just pop off caps to hopefully scare them away... *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
englishvoodoo Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 i can't say i've had any real problem's holding fire untill the enemy is close enough just using the hide command. i can't agree that troops should be prevented from wasting ammo - in ww2 thousands of bullets were fired for every hit and quartermasters had a nightmare keeping up with demand. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanE Posted December 11, 2000 Share Posted December 11, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I/O Error: Perhaps a system of Rules of Engagement? "Fire only when fired upon" "Open fire only when the enemy is within a certain range"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In CM: Wouldn't #1 be covered by "Hide" Wouldn't #2 be covered by "Ambush" Just curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Bosco Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 I/O Error, those things have been discussed before and they can't be added to CM. IIRC they won't be added to subsequent CM's either... Y'know that BTS likes to steer clear of micromanagement. Just to state the obvious: You're having your troops target the ambush marker set by their CO right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Actaully, I'm having no problems with this issue at all, I just notice a lot of other people seem to. *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I/O Error: Perhaps a system of Rules of Engagement? "Fire only when fired upon" "Open fire only when the enemy is within a certain range" etc. Does anyone else think it could be possible (and practical) to code such a thing? Would be a nice addition, if nothing else... [This message has been edited by I/O Error (edited 12-10-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No, sorry, I don't think it would be possible. You want the AI to make decisions that are simply beyond it, or give it orders that, if followed slavishly, would have you all screaming louder than you currently are. How does Charles code this vision of 'holding fire'? Never fire, until you're being overrun? Or even then? Don't fire until an enemy is within 50ms? So a platoon moves past and through your line because it's 60 ms out, and is suddenly in amongst your support units, or behind other positions. You can't expect the AI to use the same analysis you are capable of, nor would many such orders actually work in practice, as opposed to what you envision. And although it's just a matter of opinion, I very much doubt that the kind of fire-discpline some picture here is that close to Real World conditions. I know that troops often do horribly annoying and frustrating things during the game. I think, however, that they would do even more apalling things if coded up with the concepts you're advancing. Beyond the fact that CM attempts to realistically model the world (rather than just have the game conform to the Player's demands as rigidly as the moves on a chessboard), changes to the AI often have unexpected and unwelcome consequences. ------------------ Tremble, tyrants and you perfidious opprobrium of all the parties, Tremblez! your parricidal projects finally will receive their prices! But these sanguinary despots, But these accomplices of Berli, All these tigers which, without pity, Bauhaus the centre of their mother! We will enter the career When our elder is not there any more, We will find there their dust And the trace of their virtues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I/O Error Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Wow there horsie! I was just throwing out an idea! Personally, (as mentioned above) I have no problems with ambushes/hold firing/etc. I just figured it was an IDEA to throw out, because it seems as if some people dislike the current system. /me scratches head at that one /me hands Seanachai a cookie so he calms down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanachai Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by I/O Error: [b me hands Seanachai a cookie so he calms down. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry, I/O, I merely used your post as a springboard to ideas, and forgot to make clearer the fact I was addressing the concepts here in general, and not yours in particular. ------------------ Tremble, tyrants and you perfidious opprobrium of all the parties, Tremblez! your parricidal projects finally will receive their prices! But these sanguinary despots, But these accomplices of Berli, All these tigers which, without pity, Bauhaus the centre of their mother! We will enter the career When our elder is not there any more, We will find there their dust And the trace of their virtues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruno Weiss Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 No now come on guys, it's already been decreed by the Supreme Rulers, and the Cosmic Council that there is little evidence to support the theory that troops ever withheld their fire, or were so ordered to, or obeyed the order if so ordered. I too was shocked to learn that troops mostly took the attitude of "your not the boss of me." We have to be realistic now... ------------------ "Gentlemen, you may be sure that of the three courses open to the enemy, he will always choose the fourth." -Field Marshal Count Helmuth von Moltke, (1848-1916) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maj. Bosco Posted December 12, 2000 Share Posted December 12, 2000 Troops do hold fire. When you tell them to hide you are in effect telling them to hold fire. A specific hold fire command that was religously obeyed wouldn't make any sense. "Okay, they see us, they're shooting at us, and they're advancing on us. But remember, don't shoot back." I understand that it might be nice from your perspective as commander to be able to tell all your troops not to fire till they see the whites of the enemies eyes but that's something a Sergeant would say, not a captain or major or whatever rank you're supposed to be in CM. That's the argument from the realism angle. From the coding angle it would cause an issue with the AI. The AI already decides what is a threat and when it it best to fire. The better the troops, the better the decisions. The AI is there to prevent the kind of micro-management that would be "Hold fire until X meters". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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