Dar Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 Does each turn require two emails from each player? I just started a PBEM game with Mattias in Sweden, and I was surprised this morning when I got his turn 1 orders. I played the turn 1 film, and when I hit the "Done" button, it automatically saved the PBEM file to send back without asking for my turn 2 orders. Is this right or did I miss something? It seems awfully unnecessary to require two emails from each player per turn. I had thought that I would be receiving the turn 1 results and his turn 2 orders, then I would process my turn 2 orders on my computer and send him the turn 2 results and my turn 3 orders. Upon receipt, he would view the turn 2 results, process turn 3 on his computer, and send me the turn 3 results and his turn 4 orders. Am I way off base here? Are all results processed on my computer this game and sent to him? Couldn't the PBEM file contain, if not all the turn results, the random number seed to generate the same results on both computers? I am loving this demo, and I have no other serious complaints. The only minor things I've seen were the occasional AI quirks (which could be credited to FoW) and I've wondered about the sound effects I hear during the AI processing (like the ripping of an MG42 or the hollow thunk of a vehicle getting knocked out, but neither event takes place in the film for that turn). However, this apparent requirement of two emails per player per turn means we could be playing this 30-turn scenario for almost two months at one email per player per day! Please tell me I missed something obvious. I hope I'm just being ignorant here. Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 Ah Dar my trusting gamer The way it works is as follows: You plot your orders send to Mattias. He plots his and THEN the computer calculates the results but DOES NOT SHOW THEM TO HIM ! He sends the movie to you, you see it and send it back.. He plots his moves, sends to you, you plot yours.. You send the movie to him and he views it. Why is this done? To stop CHEATING.. Some players would simply replay the resolution phase until the MOST favourable results possible came up and then send it off to you. By not allowing them to see the results of their orders until you see them first no cheating can occur. Cheating is rampant on ladders etc so this is a very welcome addition IMO. Swapping the movie files is quick Dar.. you can still easily finish it inside a month. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted November 1, 1999 Author Share Posted November 1, 1999 Fionn, Now I understand the logic. You're right--I'm too trusting and haven't played PBEM games that much to realize what pitfalls there are... It's a shame that this is necessary. However, it seems to me that if *he* generates the results (for turn 1) without seeing them on his computer, and sends me those results, that I could view those results, issue my turn 2 orders and send them. He could then view the turn 1 results, issue his turn 2 orders, resolve turn 2 without seeing it, and we could repeat the process. Am I explaining this well enough? This essence of it is that one player's computer processes all turn results, but that player does not see the results until the other player has viewed them and issued his own. That still accomplishes the same thing, I believe, with one less step. Swapping the movie files may seem quick to you, however it's an extra step that requires a response from both players. When I live in Pittsburgh, PA, USA, and my current opponent Mattias lives in Sweden (I assume from the ".se" suffix), we may only be able to send one email a day to each other due to the time difference and the requirement of an acknowledgment each time. Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 Good point BUT then you'd fall into the other problem with PBEM.. Mixing up files. Its much better to keep it with 1 file per swap instead of two.. Otherwise you'll curse the 2 files later on ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted November 1, 1999 Author Share Posted November 1, 1999 I don't understand what you mean here, unless you think I'm talking about generating both a results (film) file and then an orders file, physically independent of each other. I'm talking about generating one file which contains both results and orders. Since the program interprets both types of files, appending one to the other and programmatically interpreting them can't be that much of a stretch. Here's the scenario: o Player A on host computer completes setup. Emails file to Player B. o Player B on guest computer completes setup, issues orders for turn 1. Emails *one* file containing setup and orders to A. o Host generates results file for turn 1. Player A can not view it. Sends file to B. o B watches results film for turn 1 and issues orders for turn 2. Sends *one* file containing turn 1 results and turn 2 orders to A. o Player A watches results film for turn 1, issues turn 2 orders. Host computer generates results file for turn 2, which A again can not view. Player A sends results file to B. And the cycle continues. What this means is each turn is completed in two emails. I've only played turn one of this scenario with Mattias, so I'm not fully aware of how many emails the current CM system requires. I assume that each player's computer generates turn results alternately, requiring three emails to complete a turn, as having only one host computer generate results would require four emails per turn. If I'm missing something here, please point it out to me. However, I think the system as is could be streamlined a bit. Dar [This message has been edited by Dar (edited 11-01-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Galanti Posted November 1, 1999 Share Posted November 1, 1999 I would hope you would do this with one file though... That is how I was expecting the PBEM to be. The initial setup will be a little messy. Something like the first player setsup and mails the file to the second. The second setsup and gives orders and mails it to the first. The first then gives orders, generates the turn and mails it to the second. After that, the second watches the 1st movie and gives 2nd order turns. Then the first player watches the 1st movie and gives 2nd order turns, generates the turn without watching etc... Basically each player watches a movie, then gives the next turns orders. One file, one e-mail... Seems a bit quicker. Now, it depends if the game engine can handle the files like that. I would suspect it might take a bit of coding, but the games would be much less tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted November 2, 1999 Author Share Posted November 2, 1999 Okay, well, now I've generated the results file for turn 2 and sent it to Mattias, so I realize that we are using the 3 emails/turn completion routine. I would really appreciate a comment from Steve/Charles on whether or not the 2 emails/turn completion method is feasible. I still believe the cheating preventions you're currently using could continue to be enforced this way, and it would lead to quicker game resolution with one less email requirement per turn. If I'm way off my rocker here, please let me know. It just seems to me that returning the results file right back to the player who generated it without appending orders for the next turn is a missed opportunity. Dar [This message has been edited by Dar (edited 11-01-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterNZ Posted November 2, 1999 Share Posted November 2, 1999 You guys' think all about this stuff?? my i just followed the instructions "send file to other play" then watch the puurdy battle, then do whatever the game requests.. then orders.. ahhh the easy life of a simpleton PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 2, 1999 Share Posted November 2, 1999 Dar, Ok I see what you're suggesting. One thing.. That would probably require a major coding change and certainly isn't going to be done at this stage. It sounds like a very nice thing to add to the list for CM2 though. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted November 2, 1999 Author Share Posted November 2, 1999 Fionn: Believe me, I don't think there's anything that justifies delaying CM's release given the state of the Beta demo! It seems incredibly stable for a Beta, and, as I mentioned in another thread, I'd settle for the Beta release and a scenario editor right now. However, I do think this is an improvement, and I would love to see it in a future release if it's feasible. It'd sure be easier on those who game across multiple time zones. Dar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 2, 1999 Share Posted November 2, 1999 Amen! One of my PBEM opponents is I think 7 hours behind me and one is in NZ (12 hours ahead?) So I am just sorting all the turns by folder to keep things organised. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
therontmoore Posted November 2, 1999 Share Posted November 2, 1999 how many PBEM games are you playing, Fionn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 I am starting to think Pbem is one of the coolest features, it allows me to play people outside of my timezone without staying up till 5am every morning. Remember late night CC2 zone battles with people from across the globe? slow slow slow. The only problem I've had (other than getting my but kicked) was with servers not recognizing each other hence no file transfer possible. I realize this has nothing to do with BTS but rather the web itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 Looks like 10. Two people sent me new setups or requested games today.. I'm actively playing 8 (doing AARs on 3 and doing some other stuff for CombatHQ with the other 5 which I hope to begin posting sometime next week). And of course one of my more erstwhile opponents is YOU (actually Lokesa is playing me too BTW). In addition I'm helping about 6 people with their AARs of their own games. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 Thats not really fair Fionn. I was hoping for a clean kill, now when I smoke you you'll have an excuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Pbem is one of the coolest features, it allows me to play people outside of my timezone without staying up till 5am every morning<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You also have something interesting to think about while at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 Dar, I agree, it would be preferable to be able to send your orders with the turn. If the movie is "locked" it would still stop the cheating, but bring the number of dowloads down and speed the overall game speed up. I do suspect it's too big a change for CM1. I'd dearly like to see this for CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 I assume TCP/IP will be much better in this regard. I'm in the dark as much as the next guy but I figure a direct connection with some sort of timer for inputing orders will do a lot to decrease game times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted November 3, 1999 Share Posted November 3, 1999 Steve, Charles, anyone in the know. Could you tell us what your basic plan is for TCP/IP? How you plan to set it up, turn sequence, etc. also if you could make it so icq is avaliable while game is running would be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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